Help Me Understand What I'm Hearing?

[Dude]

Hi Folks,

I've pestered Tom himself with this same subject enough already, and at one point, I actually thought I understood things, but apparently, I'm still not clear on just what it is that I'm hearing, based on the switch settings and overall configuration of my TAG. Hence, I desperately need some help.

I have a semi-hollow drop-top with Blower Switch and Switcheroo, and three (On/Off/On) mini-toggles. The guitar is equipped with an SA1R in the neck, SA1 in the middle, and HN3+ in the bridge. That said, my all-time favorite setting on this particular guitar is with the three tiny switches on the DIP (Switcheroo) switch, all set to "Series" (not Parallel) mode, and the two (neck + middle) mini-toggles set to the 'Up' (Split) mode. NOTE: The humbucker can be in either the 'On' or 'Off' positions (it doesn't seem to matter tonally either way).

I don't know if I'm losing-it or what, but this particular setting or sound comes closer to the early Dire Straits (Mark Knopfler) sound IMHO than any single setting on any guitar that I've personally ever owned or played, regardless of the amp being used, and regardless of any pedals or effects.

However, when I describe this configuration to people and tell them that my preferred setting is the N+B in the 'series/split' mode, there's instant confusion. Why? What is it that I am mis-understanding or mis-stating in my description, and more importantly, what is it that I am actually hearing with those settings in terms of pickup configuration?

When adjusted in this way (with the humbucker On or Off), isn't it the neck and middle pickups that I'm hearing, in 'series' (not parallel) mode, with the two stacked single-coils, de-coupled from one another within each (N and M) pickup?

I'm desperately trying to get to the bottom of this so that I can replicate this same sound (or something close) in several Fender Strats equipped with vintage (non-stacked) pickups and 5-way switches, or to accomplish it in future builds of my own, but I can't do so, until I can resolve what it is that I'm actually hearing.

Anyone?

[dplight]

I can't help you much with the why's, but this is one of my favorite tonal setups also. I have an H2+ in the bridge position though otherwise same setup as you. I'd say that adding the HB does make a difference on my gtr. I use the neck + mid in switches up and the HB off anytime I want that chimey almost acoustic clean sorta statish thing. I can remember guitar shopping and while I was already leaning greatly to the TAG when I found that tone it was a done deal. Nothing else I tried had "that" sound.

[Dude]

I can't help you much with the why's, but this is one of my favorite tonal setups also. I have an H2+ in the bridge position though otherwise same setup as you. I'd say that adding the HB does make a difference on my gtr. I use the neck + mid in switches up and the HB off anytime I want that chimey almost acoustic clean sorta statish thing. I can remember guitar shopping and while I was already leaning greatly to the TAG when I found that tone it was a done deal. Nothing else I tried had "that" sound.

dplight -

Thanks so-much for validating my real or perceived 'sanity' on this matter. Its been a long, empty, lonely road of trying to learn and convince others of what it is that I'm hearing vs. where the electrons are actually flowing.

I think the stumbling block for me lies somewhere in my understanding (or lack thereof) of the relationship between the stacked coils themselves within a given single-coil pickup (either split or parallel) and the relationship between two adjacent pickups like N+M (series/parallel).

Lots to learn yet.

[tom]

for starters, there is not a "series" setting on the dip switches. the choices are split or parallel. with the top toggles up you get split. so with the first two switches up you have two split, or true single coil pickups on and they are N+M, not N+B.
so you are hearing the regular 2nd position on any 5 way when position 1 is the neck pickup. regular old 2 adjacent single coils. i think you just like our pickups.

[Dude]

for starters, there is not a "series" setting on the dip switches. the choices are split or parallel. with the top toggles up you get split. so with the first two switches up you have two split, or true single coil pickups on and they are N+M, not N+B.
so you are hearing the regular 2nd position on any 5 way when position 1 is the neck pickup. regular old 2 adjacent single coils. i think you just like our pickups.

Ah-ha, too funny! I can't figure-out if you're an 'antagonist' or a 'protagonist'?

[tom]

just trying to say it as clear as possible:D did not know if you had typo's or if that's the way you thought it worked.

[Dude]

just trying to say it as clear as possible:D did not know if you had typo's or if that's the way you thought it worked.

No-no, it was clearly a typo (I meant N+M not N+B), but yes, I'm beginning to think that you're absolutely right - that after all is said and done, we're one of the few who truly DO like these pups!

[pipedwho]

that after all is said and done, we're one of the few who truly DO like these pups!
Yep, it's the pups that you're liking so much. :)

The split sound in those pups is a nice hot single with big slugs in the same vein as was done with the non-humcancelling 1/4" slug pickups that Knopfler used for a while.

I have a Schecter custom shop 'strat' with the Knopfler pickups and they definitely nail the Dire Straits tone. The SAs and SDs come extremely close to that sound when split.

The advantage of the SAs (and SDs) over the Schecter singles is that they can also be hum-cancelling in the neck-only and middle-only positions. Obviously the N+M position is hum-cancelling either way as the neck is reverse wound / reverse polarity to the middle. But, in the 'split' position they sound like huge singles and in position 4 (N+M), and with the right woods, they quack nicely.

Also worth noting is that stacked singles are quieter when configured to be hum-cancelling on their own (in both series and parallel configurations), and are louder when split. This is because the dummy slug is sitting underneath the primary coil and cancels some of the string signal along with the hum, thus producing a lower output. When split, the dummy slug is shorted out and you only hear the goodness of the hot wound top coil.

[Dude]

Piped -

Thanks so-much for the detailed post and the information you've shared here. Clearly a ringing endorsement for Tom's pickups, and I strongly suspect that you're right. I'm no pro, but I've been digging into this subject and slowly leaning towards this particular conclusion now for months - I only wish I could convince Tom himself! Haaa!

Obviously, I cannot speak for Tom, and hopefully, he'll pipe-in again, but based on my previous conversations with him, he seems to think these SA1's are nothing special, something that I wholeheartedly disagree with. Witness the following quote from Tom . . . "you are hearing the regular 2nd position on any 5 way when position 1 is the neck pickup - regular old 2 adjacent single coils."

As I've told him and a number of others over the weeks, I've got several all-original Fender Strats with standard ('56 and '62) vintage-style pickups in them, and they simply cannot be made to sound anything like my Anderson SA's, no-way, no how! And yet, I can't begin to count the number of people who have tried to tell me that its not these instruments or their pickups or their wiring, but rather the amplifier or the effects or my playing technique that are responsible for the sound.

No! There's no question in my mind that the answer lies in these pickups and the way in which they are constructed, as well as the way in which they are wired. The question facing me now is . . . can I hope to recreate that exact same configuration (and sound) in another parts guitar myself, using another set of those same SA or SD pickups and the same wiring scheme? I think the answer is 'yes', but I've got a lot more homework to do on it yet.

Anyway, thanks again to you, Tom and 'dplight' for responding.

[tom]

let me rephrase.

just because someone made a sound you love with different gear doesn't mean you have to use that gear to get that sound. your hands and how you both setup your gear and play have an immeasurable affect on what comes out. we've all heard great players get great sounds with garden variety gear, and we've probably all heard beginners make great gear sound less than wonderful.
the sound you're after is two single coils sitting next to each other and doing their magical cancelling of just the right frequencies. the way our pickups are doing it seems to suit you best or least easiest. i love that, and you should be very happy to have discovered it. many people never find what they are looking for.
on the technical side, there is a huge difference between how a vintage style single coil and the SA works. vintage singles have about the most string pull of any pickup known to man. that's a part of what makes them sound the way they do. they cancel all kinds of stuff and the closer they get to the string the more they try to stop it from vibrating. i feel that when i play and i makes me crazy. the sa has a big soft magnetic field so it is happy to let the string ring longer. this is just one of the differences, so it is the sum that you are enjoying.

[Dude]

let me rephrase.

just because someone made a sound you love with different gear doesn't mean you have to use that gear to get that sound. your hands and how you both setup your gear and play have an immeasurable affect on what comes out. we've all heard great players get great sounds with garden variety gear, and we've probably all heard beginners make great gear sound less than wonderful.

the sound you're after is two single coils sitting next to each other and doing their magical cancelling of just the right frequencies. the way our pickups are doing it seems to suit you best or least easiest. i love that, and you should be very happy to have discovered it. many people never find what they are looking for.

on the technical side, there is a huge difference between how a vintage style single coil and the SA works. vintage singles have about the most string pull of any pickup known to man. that's a part of what makes them sound the way they do. they cancel all kinds of stuff and the closer they get to the string the more they try to stop it from vibrating. i feel that when i play and i makes me crazy. the sa has a big soft magnetic field so it is happy to let the string ring longer. this is just one of the differences, so it is the sum that you are enjoying.

Another great post Tom! Thank you for that, and yes, I completely follow you on this basic concept of multi-faceted contributions from instrument to gear to playing skill, etc. - no worries there at all, but I do indeed feel that I've arrived at something of a milestone, and its clearly no fluke. I'm sure its no monumental revelation to the legions of other players out there, most with far more experience and skill than I, but its an all-important lesson for me nonetheless.

Until recently, I simply haven't paid enough attention (or taken the time to truly observe and learn) the subtle differences in pickup design and their significance to the sounds that I personally prefer. Your observation about "two single coils sitting next to each other, doing their magical cancelling of just the right frequencies" is certainly true and applicable, but my Strats all have that, right? So there's much-much more to the equation, and that's where I've been negligent or absentee.

The fact is, I can take any other guitar that I own, set to any 5-way setting one chooses, and play it through any convoluted permutation of deluxe gear known (e.g., boutique amps and FX units, etc.), and I dare say neither you or I or Mark Knopfler himself will be able to achieve the type/quality of tone that I'm getting from these SA's - that's the bottom line. Its something that I've been in futile search of, for a great many years, so its got my attention. It pains me to think that it's taken me this long when it was right there in front of my face, but better late than never. I'm sure it'll sound like an overstatement, but it changes nearly everything about the way I look at my different guitars, my gear and the way in which I approach playing, and believe me, that's an incredibly 'good' thing!

If you don't mind, I will contact you again in the near future (directly by e-mail) about your '5-Way/Add Bridge/Master Splitter-SSS' diagram and some questions that I have in that regard, but also about the SA/SC/SD/SF pickup choices. Until then, please accept my sincere thanks for the patience you've shown and the continuing education that you've provided me over the weeks.