Wireless

[Casper]

Hi Guys-
Whats the latest cool wireless situation for guitarists? My sound guy is pushing me towards Shures PGDX digital. I have the ULX now, but , and maybe its just needing to read the manual.. I cannot seem to get the thing to search for the best channel and group when we are on the road, which results in dropout and crosstalk with our other wireless users..
Any thoughts?

[markus]

I'm running a Shure PGDX for about a year and a half now and I'm really happy with it. It's super easy to use (basically plug & play) and it sounds pretty good as well.

[dannopelli]

It sounds to me like your sound guy wants you to switch to digital wireless. Far less interference, drop out, and no companding. ULX is analog. He offered the PGXD as it is reasonably priced and digital. It does however operate in the 900Mhz band. Line 6 offers a product that is getting rave reviews on all the forums, and it operates in the 2.4Ghz band. May or may not matter but will if you play gigs overseas, or even in the Caribbean.

I know you have had issues with Line 6 in the past, but it is not the same company that it was a decade ago. Heck the lead guitarist for the Doobies is using a Tyler Variax and a HD 500. That said the wireless line is from an acquisition, so it entered the market as a mature product.

So the comparable lines are the Line 6 Relay 55/Shure PGXD and the Line 6 Relay 90/Shure ULXD.

The PGXD and the Relay 55 are in the same ballpark price wise. The ULXD is twice the price of the Relay G90.

Do some comparisons on some other forums. It is kind of all over the place. I think you'll be happy with any of them. Just be careful about the 2.4 vs 900 thing if you play out of the USA.

[dannopelli]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTE6hmJNlMk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz_KXeponKw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UFLXDxPbNg

And for your sound guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPPKxhAi6dI&feature=relmfu

[Casper]

Thanks Dan and Markus..will defintely check both out along with these clips!..Its a minor thing but I notice the Shure uses AA batteries....DERN! Our whole band uses the older gen Shure IEMs and ULX which is all 9volt! This may be a small consideration!;)

[pipedwho]

The most annoying thing about using realtime wireless systems in the 2.4GHz band is that it's already overcrowded and you're forced to compete with possible RFI mayhem from Wifi/Bluetooth/Proximity sensors/Microwave ovens/security systems/industrial control/mesh networks/etc. Many of which are new Wifi devices broadcasting across potentially the whole band at the maximum power level allowed, which is generally bad news if your device is a realtime audio link that doesn't have the luxury of retransmitting its data half a second later.

I have a 900MHz band X2 Wireless system (since acquired by Line6 a few years back), and have never had an issue with dropout. Unfortunately here in Australia it has only one effective channel, due to the other 4 channels overlapping with frequencies that were reallocated to 3G/GSM mobile phone networks.

I also have a Line6 G50 (2.4GHz band) that usually works fine, but, at one venue it kept having random stutters (on any channel I used). The problem went away if I moved really close to the receiver. We traced it back to the fact that there were a few dozen highly active Wifi access points in the building. Luckily I still kept the older 900MHz unit in my bag, which worked fine.

Microwave ovens also operate in the 2.4GHz band (which is the whole reason that band was left aside for unlicensed equipment), and some dodgy microwave magnetrons can spew RF noise across the entire band.

In my previous company our wifi would drop out at lunch time every day. For months, we just thought too many people were trying to access the internet during their lunch break. But, one day we were working through lunch, testing a new comms product design, and saw the spectrum analyser go crazy in the 2.4GHz band. We traced it back to a microwave oven. After replacing the microwave with a new one, the Wifi problem went away.

But, it goes to show that 2.4GHz was never intended for mission critical realtime reliability. And it's far too hit and miss to be 100% depending on units operating in that band. It's just really annoying that there isn't better worldwide spectral allocation for the new breed of digital microphone and IEM systems.

In most venues you'll probably get lucky, but there's always the risk of being caught out and having to stand almost right on top of your receiver to guarantee a reliable signal. Here's to hoping that the new TV band reallocations will give up enough spectrum for unlicensed real-time audio transmission at live events.

[dannopelli]

I heard of that microwave issue with 2.4g systems, including phones. That can be an issue with malfunctioning microwaves. And if the receiver is within the range of the microwave, well you are cooked for that gig. My research on the line 6 unit did not turn up any stories of crosstalk from other units, including microwaves, but YMMV.

Shaun I think both Line 6 and Shure are using AA.

If the rest of the band is using ULX why are you the only one with isssues? Seems weird. Maybe you just need a new transmitter?

[strat56]

I have an X2 digital wireless and have never had an issue.

I thought the transmitter sent an ID along with it's transmission and the receiver only accepted transmissions from it's paired transmitter?

[dplight]

I have an X2 digital wireless and have never had an issue.

I thought the transmitter sent an ID along with it's transmission and the receiver only accepted transmissions from it's paired transmitter?

That is true, but if there is too much interference for the receiver to properly decode the data stream then you are not going to get any usable audio. The ID does protect against crosstalk, but it can't stop jamming.

[pipedwho]

I have an X2 digital wireless and have never had an issue.

I thought the transmitter sent an ID along with it's transmission and the receiver only accepted transmissions from it's paired transmitter?
This is true. The X2 units run in the 900MHz band. I've only once had an issue with mine, and that's because someone sat their iPhone right on top of the receiver, and audio dropped in and out as a call came in. Now we always make sure our phones and bags on the other side of the stage to the wireless receivers and amps, and haven't had a problem since.

The good thing about all the digital systems is that when an interference occurs, you don't get nasty sounding breakthrough of the interferer. Instead, the signal just mutes for the duration of the interference. That's why the ID is necessary. Encryption takes it one step further, but is generally not necessary unless you're trying to avoid anyone eve's dropping on your audio stream.

The X2 XDS and XDR units have a nice feature in that they always transmit in two channels simultaneously, so if a garage door opener, cordless phone or other signal jams one of the channels, there's a good chance that the second channel is still clear. 900MHz ISM band systems also tend to be low power, low bandwidth, and less common. So these units are likely to remain rock solid for a long time.

That being said, my 2.4GHz units normally don't have any problems at all. Just at that one venue, and in other places that I don't use it (like at the office building where I work, and in my computer room).