How to set up Intonation on BFTS

[brokenvail]

Ok I have searched the forum and see many posts that talk about doing intonation on BFTS but non simply have a step by step instruction. I have a Peterson Strobo Clip which has the BFTS setting and I also have a Axe FX ii that I have programmed the BFTS into. My thought would have been that I would do intonation like in a normal guitar except with the BFTS setting on in the tuner but something tells me I am wrong

[tom]

The offsets are different for tuning and intonation. I don't know if the flip has both. Anyone know?

[brokenvail]

Grr well that sux. It dies not have the intonation setting. I can manually put them in my axe fx though. What are the off sets and how do I do intonation?

[strat56]

I've heard if you intonate to a fretted note then the offsets don't apply, they only apply to open strings. maybe somone can correct me if I'm wrong.

[pipedwho]

I've heard if you intonate to a fretted note then the offsets don't apply, they only apply to open strings. maybe somone can correct me if I'm wrong.
You tune to the offset of the open string, then check intonation while fretting at the 12th fret. The reference pitch for the fretted 12th is a different offset from equal temperament than the reference/offset for the open position. But, there is still an offset for each string while being fretted at the 12th fret.

[dannopelli]

Open String Offsets
E___________________00
B__________________+01
G__________________-02
D__________________-02
A__________________-02
E__________________-02

12th Fret Offsets
E___________________00
B___________________00
G__________________+01
D__________________+01
A___________________00
E___________________00

YOU DO HAVE TO FRET THE 12th FRET WHEN INTONATING.
ALWAYS TUNE TO THE ATTACK, NOT THE DECAY! ALWAYS TUNE USING THE BRIDGE PUP.

1. Change your strings.
2. Tune guitar as normal, using BFTS open tuning.
3. Adjust neck for proper relief.
4. Tune again using BFTS open tuning.
5. Switch to 12th Fret Offsets in your tuner
6. Fret the sixth string, adjust string length depending on sharp or flat result.
7. Switch back to BFTS open tuning.
8. Tune guitar.
9. Switch back to BFTS 12th Fret Offsets in your tuner.
10.Double check the sixth string intonation
10.Fret the fifth string, adjust string length depending on sharp or flat result.
11.Switch back to BFTS open tuning.
12.Tune guitar
13. Continue like this for all six strings.

[bruce]

BTW.. Those Feiten offsets are for an electric guitar with a plain G string .018 or lower.

If you use .019 or higher, OR a wound G then all offsets are completely different.

Oh, and you can select whichever pickup works best with your tuner/guitar. Most of the time neck pickup with the tone rolled off is best if your tuner jumps around and has difficulty finding the note. This takes away some of the harmonics so the tuner hears the fundamental better. There isn't a rule here... just what works best for your application as different guitars have different characters and different tuners hear differently. Of course the Turbo Tuners don't have this problem.

[dannopelli]

....

Oh, and you can select whichever pickup works best with your tuner/guitar. Most of the time neck pickup with the tone rolled off is best if your tuner jumps around and has difficulty finding the note. ...

Really? Never knew that. Guy who taught me, a NYC area tech, told me the strings have less room to vibrate closer to the bridge PUP, thus had the fewest harmonics and the purest signal.

But then again, I now use a turbo tuner....:)

This is good to know, as I do think that on tuners I had prior to the turbo I had to fight a bit to intonate with the bridge PUP. I found that if I used the neck first, and then switched to the bridge it went faster.

[bruce]

Really? Never knew that. Guy who taught me, a NYC area tech, told me the strings have less room to vibrate closer to the bridge PUP, thus had the fewest harmonics and the purest signal.

But then again, I now use a turbo tuner....:)

This is good to know, as I do think that on tuners I had prior to the turbo I had to fight a bit to intonate with the bridge PUP. I found that if I used the neck first, and then switched to the bridge it went faster.

Yeah, that's why I said "most of the time"... Some guitars (and tuners) respond differently. I believe both Peterson and Sonic Research, (Turbo), mention this on their sites. Yes the strings are vibrating in a smaller pattern at the bridge, but the note is still the same. It has to do with harmonics within the note that the tuner is hearing. At the neck, there is more of a pure fundamental note. Again, this more applies to tuners that are scrambling to find the note you just plucked. Ever try to intonate a 5- string bass and the tuner is dumbfounded? The Turbo Tuner sees notes quicker and easier than any other tuner... but we already knew that.

[wolf]

The Stroboflip has them already mate, I have one.
Press TMPO/SET when you've got the Bf-Elec on the screen and arrow up.
It will display Bf-Elec.in

That's the setting for intonation, simply flick back and forth between each setting to tune the open string and the 12th fret interval.

[brokenvail]

I have the Strobo Clip not flip. It has the tuning off sets but not the intonation off sets. Looks like I will have to program the tuner on my AxeFx ii with the intonation off sets and use both it and my strobo clip at the same time when the time comes to set intonation.

[wolf]

Sorry mate.
thought you'd spelt it wrong as I'd never heard of a Stroboclip. ;)

[bruce]

I have the Strobo Clip not flip. It has the tuning off sets but not the intonation off sets. Looks like I will have to program the tuner on my AxeFx ii with the intonation off sets and use both it and my strobo clip at the same time when the time comes to set intonation.

I'm pretty sure the AxeFx uses "Hz" as their measurement of tuning... not "cents" which is the method of measurement for the Feiten system. If the AxeFx won't measure in cents then you can't do ANY Feiten offsets.

[pipedwho]

I'm pretty sure the AxeFx uses "Hz" as their measurement of tuning... not "cents" which is the method of measurement for the Feiten system. If the AxeFx won't measure in cents then you can't do ANY Feiten offsets.
Assuming the AxeFx lets you input a decimal place or two of precision, the value in Hz can be calculated from each cent offset and input into the AxeFx.

[brokenvail]

Assuming the AxeFx lets you input a decimal place or two of precision, the value in Hz can be calculated from each cent offset and input into the AxeFx.
It can, it move in increments of +/-.01

[harritone]

Great thread here!....very informative
Open String Offsets
E___________________00
B__________________+01
G__________________-02
D__________________-02
A__________________-02
E__________________-02

12th Fret Offsets
E___________________00
B___________________00
G__________________+01
D__________________+01
A___________________00
E___________________00

YOU DO HAVE TO FRET THE 12th FRET WHEN INTONATING.
ALWAYS TUNE TO THE ATTACK, NOT THE DECAY! ALWAYS TUNE USING THE BRIDGE PUP.

1. Change your strings.
2. Tune guitar as normal, using BFTS open tuning.
3. Adjust neck for proper relief.
4. Tune again using BFTS open tuning.
5. Switch to 12th Fret Offsets in your tuner
6. Fret the sixth string, adjust string length depending on sharp or flat result.
7. Switch back to BFTS open tuning.
8. Tune guitar.
9. Switch back to BFTS 12th Fret Offsets in your tuner.
10.Double check the sixth string intonation
10.Fret the fifth string, adjust string length depending on sharp or flat result.
11.Switch back to BFTS open tuning.
12.Tune guitar
13. Continue like this for all six strings.

[dannopelli]

The one consistent I find is that every time you commence to adjusting a string you should check that all six are tuned properly. Also, insuring that neck relief is properly set PRIOR to doing adjustment is important.

Great that Bruce clarified the PUP selection issue. That helps too.

One thing, and I think Tom may have mentioned this a while back, is that with single coil guitars, insure that the PUPS height is properly adjusted before starting. If they are too close to the strings they can pull them out of intonation and you will not get the string adjusted correctly.

[pipedwho]

Here are the calculated offsets in Hz (based on A=440Hz):

Open String Offsets
E4 (329.628Hz)___________________00c
B3 (246.942Hz)__________________+01c (247.084Hz) [+0.14 Hz]
G3 (195.998Hz)__________________-02c (195.771Hz) [-0.23 Hz]
D3 (146.832Hz)__________________-02c (146.663Hz) [-0.17 Hz]
A2 (110.000Hz)__________________-02c (109.873Hz) [-0.13 Hz]
E2 (82.407Hz)___________________-02c (82.312Hz) [-0.10 Hz]

Fretted 12th Fret Offsets
E5 (659.255Hz)___________________00c
B4 (493.883Hz)___________________00c
G4 (391.995Hz)__________________+01c (392.222Hz) [+0.23 Hz]
D4 (293.665Hz)__________________+01c (293.834Hz) [+0.17 Hz]
A3 (220.000Hz)___________________00c
E3 (164.814Hz)___________________00c

The values in square brackets are the offset in Hertz rounded to the nearest 0.01Hz for each point.

[bruce]

Holy Cow... that hertz!

That would not fun if you decided to play a half step down for a while.

[pipedwho]

Holy Cow... that hertz!

That would not fun if you decided to play a half step down of a while.
I'm sure that's why most things musical are offset with cents. Much cheaper. ;)

It's not hard to calculate, the progression is exponential, so the conversion is simply a multiplier.

OffsetMultiplier = 2^(OffsetInCents/1200)
NewNoteInHertz = OriginalNoteInHertz * OffsetMultiplier
OffsetInHertz = NewNoteInHertz - OriginalNoteInHertz

But, it's FAR FAR easier to just enter an offset in cents into the Turbo Tuner. :)

[brokenvail]

You are the Man!

[brokenvail]

I'm pretty sure the AxeFx uses "Hz" as their measurement of tuning... not "cents" which is the method of measurement for the Feiten system. If the AxeFx won't measure in cents then you can't do ANY Feiten offsets.

FYI I email FAS and they hold me that the offsets tab adjusts in cents.

[pipedwho]

FYI I email FAS and they hold me that the offsets tab adjusts in cents.
That makes more sense. It also means you can ignore my posts above, and avoid the pain of using Hertz. :)

[brokenvail]

That makes more sense. It also means you can ignore my posts above, and avoid the pain of using Hertz. :)
When doing a set up I am using the strobo clip for open tuning and set off sets on the axe fx to so the 12th fret

[Pietro]

Another thing I learned... early on...

When setting intonation, DON'T lay the guitar flat to do it. It behaves differently lying flat than it does in the regular playing position. I do it in playing position.

The StroboStomp2 doesn't have the separate BFTS intonation tuning mode. I thought that it's BFTS mode had the 12-fret offsets automatically. Is that correct?