Speaker Choices

[Casper]

Hi Folks! I am in the middle of having my Peavey Classic 30 re-built and maybe goosed a bit. I have been reading about speakers and trying to learn about tube amps in general (being that I have 2). I have a Celestion V-30 in this amp, and it has done well; however, I am reading up on that speaker and have discovered its really designed for closed back applications. The peavey is an open backed 112 combo.(16ohm)..
The V-30 is a bit honky in the mids, but is probably ok. (this is a bedroom/sidegig amp anyway) I can't help but wonder if I could make a better choice. After reading on the net and a few trades, i am getting a bunch of suggestions ranging from Eminence, to Weber, to Jensen...Neo vs. Ceramic vs Alnico.
I would just like a good warm vintage base to start, but would like the speaker to be versatile to cover many genres. I am not opposed to any suggestions.
What are you folks recommending, or have experience with?
Its a 30 watt amp..do I need a 75w or 100 watt speaker? Opinions please?

[pipedwho]

If you play rock and roll, the Vintage-30 is the perfect speaker for that amp. Greenbacks (and equivalent) are too lifeless in that situation, and the wider range speakers lose the character imparted by the Vintage 30 and are too 'open' for lively rock IMO.

If you like to play clean and want more sparkle, an Alnico speaker like the Clelestion Blue (if you never exceed 15 watts) or the Celestion Gold for a deeper more robust but still sparkly sound (and won't have any problems in that cab). They still have that emphasised midrange character (like the V30), but also have some better chime and sparkle.

Even though the Vintage 30 may not have been designed for open back use - it has really proven itself in the lower wattage 1x12 open back combo department.

Of course, all of the above is just my opinion, but I've played with quite a few different speakers in my Mesa Boogie DC 1x12 combo and have come to the above conclusion. The speaker in there now is a Vintage 30.

[Ray K.]

The Peavey Classic 30 is a really nice tube amp to have around. I've owned one for some time now. I have a Hellatone 30 in mine from Avatar Speakers: http://www.avatarspeakers.com/. The 30 watt should be fine, but if you think you need it, you can go with a Hellatone 60 watt.

Btw, I also like to use a Weber Beam Blocker to help keep the speaker from "beaming" straight off the cone. http://www.webervst.com/blocker.html. I can also hear my amp better while standing closer to it.

Other than that, the only tweaks I've done to mine is tubes. I happen to like JJ Electronics in the pre and power amp section.

Let us know how it all turns out.

Ray K.

[Casper]

Thanks Ray and Piped! My amp (chasis anyway) is being rebuilt by Andy at Thomas Ampworks in Hawaii. If you ever hang out on the Boogie Forum, you know him as Monstatone. Piped, I didn't know you also had a Boogie DC?!! What model? I have a DC5 and I LOVE it. I am just learning more about it every gig it seems.
Like I said, The V-30 is probably okay, but I was half curious if its the BEST application for what I'm doing. i picked it out years ago, because it was a Celestion and definitely an upgrade from the Sheffield I had in it. I see these Weber Blue Dogs and Eminence Private Jacks and even the Neo-Celestion stuff and really want to experiment...trouble is, my amp may be completely different when it comes back. This amp has seen the road folks..I had it out with me for 8 years and over 1000 gigs before I moved on..it never failed me once. this is like a spa treatment for an amp I'll never get rid of, so I want to get the best situation for it...and if I can make it a monster by upgrading the speaker a little more..why not?

[pipedwho]

I have a DC3 Head and DC2 Combo. Love the EL84 sound. The DC5 has 6L6s that work well with a Celestion CL-80 / Mesa MC-90 which is a more open sound than the Vintage 30 (and equivalents).

The DC3/2 otoh seem to really like the narrower band sound of the Vintage 30. Greenbacks kill it, and Neos tend to be too in your face in the top end. The Alnicos aren't bad, but can be a bit brittle for bringing on the rock IMO.

I haven't tried the subtle V30 variants like Hellatone/Scumback etc. Also, the beamblockers aren't bad, but I found they didn't really do anything once you got past about 10 feet away - they helped greatly in the garage though!

[dannopelli]

The V30 has been a kind of reference speaker for years. It was originally built I believe for Marshalls as the speakers in their cabs were blowing too often.

That said, while it may not have been originally designed for open back, it has been used in countless open back models as OEM's for over 30 years. Bogner, Dr Z, both known for their great clean sounds use them.

In general it is often considered a "reference" speaker for warm sounding amps. My F30 and Maz 18 have V30's. Kind of surprised you find it honky, as it is often used to counter that.

All that said, there are tons of options out there would fit your need. I am personally familiar with the Celestion Blues and Golds, but I think they are not what you are looking for. They are really great and complex for cleans, but may be a little too country for you when overdriven. At 15W the Blues might be a problem. The Golds sound nearly identical to Blues, but can handle high power. Maybe a Celestion G12H? It is the stock speaker for a lot of open back boutique amps.

But yeah Eminence, (which Splawn, Carr and many others now use), are the new hotness is speakers. Weber and Hellatone make a nice speaker too. Tone Tubby is great.

One thing to consider is that a LOT of speakers out there are merely that manufacturer's "take" on a classic by Jensen, Celestion, Altec, etc.

Good luck. BTW, did you buy a Dragster?

[Casper]

@ Danno, no on the Dragster for now..I am in the middle of some tone experiments with my DC and I went out front during sound check last week..it sounds fine for me for now. when we start doing outdoor shows this year, I'll re-visit the prospect.
Like I said, the V-30 is a good speaker and I really didn't have much of an issue..and really, the honkiness in the upper mids, could have just been the amp or my eq...really not a bother as i really don't gig with the amp much..but will want to start rotating it once I get it back.
After hearing some samples and reading about various speakers..it just makes me wonder if I really need a 75watt speaker for a 30 watt amp? Some people on one forum are using a 100 watt Jensen Neo for 25 watt boutique amps??!
I thought maybe if I got a 40 or 50 watt and considered my stage volume..it would let the potential speaker breathe a bit? Wrong thinking? The premium stuff like the Celestion Gold and Eminence Legend, Weber stuff are $200+..:eek:
I can get a good ceramic Eminence Private Jack or Cannibis Rex for under 100.

[dannopelli]

FWIW,

The bottom line is going to be the tone you can achieve. But there are a few things worth remembering as you move along in your tone quest. Just remember that a powered signal to an IDENTICAL speaker from a 60W amp is NOT necessarily twice as loud as that from a 30W amp. And loudness could become an issue for you.

OK moving forward:

From purely the speaker perspective your tone is going to be determined by a number of factors, most notably max power handling and efficiency, and the relationship between the two. Note that efficiency does tend to have a larger impact upon tone

Why is this important? Read this for a really quite a good explanation:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=758514

That said, if all things are equal you then get into speaker components, design, and of VERY significant importance, cabinet design. Any speaker may sound glorious in one cabinet, and like hell in another. If the cabinet is a rigid design vs a looser design, like a tweed, the same speaker will generate different perceived tones.

Be careful with some forum threads. Guys will swap speakers and say they are wonderful, and others will do exactly the same and hate them. Dig further and often you find they are using different power amps and different cabinets. So of course they sound different.

Considering that your cabinet design is "fixed" (you are not building a new cabinet), it might help your decision making to revisit the factors associated with amp power and its relation to speaker power handling and efficiency. These few short articles might help:


http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/5-things-about-speakers/1541
http://www.harmonycentral.com/docs/DOC-1951
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan10/articles/speakers.htm

In other words, while utilizing more of the speaker's power handling capacity may get you closer to your goal at a certain fixed volume, but doing so might also actually make the amp seem "louder." Whether or not that becomes a problem is your call.

And in the end, two speakers with the same specs could, due to the design, sound totally different. Paper vs hemp? Alnico vs ceramic vs neodymium? Steel vs aluminum chassis?

This article from Eminence, once you read past the marketing, is useful too:
http://www.guitarspeakerguide.com/

And this is a good article too:
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/gear_maintenance/choosing_speakers_to_drive_your_cabs.html?no_takeo ver

Good luck!

[chriswhite]

If you like the V30 I suggest you give the Heritage G12H 75hz a try. it is a better version of the G12H Anniversary. I'm not great at describing tone but I love the V30 and this is like an improved version of it. it feels more balanced, a little more low end and highs that are freakin brilliant, they cut through a bit more and are very articulated. I love it.

[Casper]

After some more research and demos.. I decided to order a Weber Ceramic 50w 16ohm "Blue Dog."
Neat to know that it will be made and shipped in a couple of weeks!
I'll let ya know!
Thanks everyone!:D

[guitarzan]

After some more research and demos.. I decided to order a Weber Ceramic 50w 16ohm "Blue Dog."
Neat to know that it will be made and shipped in a couple of weeks!
I'll let ya know!
Thanks everyone!:D

I had that same Blue Dog in a TopHat Club Royale 2x12 combo and had it paired with a Greenback. It was good. I liked the pairing.