Custom orders - lots of questions

[okstrat]

I've decided to price a custom TA. Basically a 24.75" scale drop top with floyd. I have a 25.5" drop top w/floyd currently and two cobras. I like the scale on the cobras but you can't get em with floyds. So... best of both worlds for me.

I have a good idea of what I want in this guitar, so literally I'm going to fill out the online form and hand it to a dealer. He's not going to have to spend a lot of hand holding or going over options - I'm going to use my favorite Anderson's neck profile, pickups, etc, so it should be fairly painless. I might ask about pricing on a few options just to see what it adds to the cost, but it's going to be pretty easy for them I would think.

My two questions are:

1) How much price variance am I looking at from dealer to dealer? I priced a custom shop Jackson back in the day and there was about a $500 difference. I would be very unhappy if I priced a custom Anderson and then some other dealer could have saved me $500 or so. It's still the same guitar no matter who turns in my order, and again, just in my case, it's going to be writing it up and turning it in.

2) Turnaround. What time frame would I be looking at?

3) Do most dealers take a deposit and then balance at completion? All up front?

Any info would be greatly appreciated. Also if anyone has ordered a custom and had a great experience with it, what dealer did you go through and why?

BTW, the one thing I am NOT worried about is the quality of the instrument I'll get - every Anderson I've laid hands on has been a superlative guitar.

Pete

[tom]

i think you will find pricing pretty even amongst our dealers. some will have more available slots than others. jack who runs this forum always has available slots so he is a great place to start. i would encourage you to NOT blanket our dealers with the same request as it makes more work for us having to respond to everyone and it might promt us to install a radioactive chip in your guitar:D

[okstrat]

Just sent an email to Jack, crossing fingers.

Tom, you have my word I would only submit my specs to the top three dozen dealers I could find online. :)

Pete

[tom]

If you're planning on having more children i wouldbe careful how you hold your new guitar:D

[GaryMac]

"If you're planning on having more children i wouldbe careful how you hold your new guitar"

Brilliant:D :D :D :D :D

[pipedwho]

If you're planning on having more children i wouldbe careful how you hold your new guitar:D
Gives a whole new meaning to ordering a 'heavy metal' guitar. ;)

[Charlie J]

If you're planning on having more children i wouldbe careful how you hold your new guitar:D

this makes me want to order just to see what lifethreatening punitive damage might be in store for future generations:))

seriously, if I can ever get a real job, I want a Short T more than I want another child anyway:)

[markus]

Hahaha!!! This thread is hilarious! You might want to pre-order one of these here: http://www.alimed.com/adjustable-quick-drop-radiation-aprons/?gclid=CPba8OOY7q0CFeUZQgodnE384g
Might get a bit heavy on stage, but the look will be unique!!! :p

To answer some of okstrat's questions though...

1) In my experience the best way to get the best price is to have a great and loyal relationship with your dealer. If you always chase the last dollar out of every deal, you end up taking your business all over the place. My approach is to give pretty much all my business to the same dealer all the time, even if sometimes they don't have the lowest price. Over time, your loyalty and patronage will be rewarded with things like no deposits, great price breaks and - most importantly - great customer service and new friendships!

2) I have ordered 12 :eek: and received 10 custom Andersons so far. I'd say the average turnaround time was around 3-4 months

3) See my comments to your first question. I think a deposit of some sort is pretty common if the dealer doesn't know you well. I remember putting about 1/2 down for my first few Andersons...

Hope this helps.

[dannopelli]

Hahaha!!! This thread is hilarious! ...

To answer some of okstrat's questions though...

1) In my experience the best way to get the best price is to have a great and loyal relationship with your dealer. ...



Been my experience also. All my guitars and amps come from the same place, even though I now live hundreds of miles away.

[Briggs]

If you always chase the last dollar out of every deal, you end up taking your business all over the place. My approach is to give pretty much all my business to the same dealer all the time, even if sometimes they don't have the lowest price. Over time, your loyalty and patronage will be rewarded with things like no deposits, great price breaks and - most importantly - great customer service and new friendships!

Sheer wisdom! ^^^^

Oh, and I would take his advice on the apron thingy too!

[okstrat]

So, sent in my RFQ, Jack sent it back with a price that made me very happy. I'm basically getting a drop top with a 24.75" scale, rosewood neck, hollow body and floyd rose. I love my two cobras (one is a hollow S) but the cobra isn't offered with a floyd, which I have on a drop top.

And due to Tom's gentle atomic persuasion, I only talked to Jack as far as dealers go. :) Honestly, I was surprised at how close to the pricing of an off the shelf new Anderson a custom order was. I took my favorite elements of all three of my current TAGs and it should be awesome.

Now as they say, the waiting is the hardest part.

Pete

[markus]

See... that was http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31E8rT%2BVPCL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
Congrats!!! And of course extra points for the Floyd from me! :D :D

[uburoibob]

Hmmm, after that bad advice I gave about how to remove knobs, I periodically get this funny feeling in my abdomen while playing my Andersons... Can those chips be remotely activated? I gotta say, though, my new third eye is working out pretty well...

Bob

[dannopelli]

I'd worry more about the third nipple Chandler Bing!:eek:

[dplight]

Pete, sounds like a great guitar is on it's way.

[lumco]

Go with a dealer out of your state.. save yourself state sales tax which kills you on a $2500-$3000 axe. I ordered 2 TA's at once and saved a boatload by doing this. I found out the dealer won't help you on that **tax issue**..you will have money left over for strings and a tour bus.

[tom]

out of state so ups can have another shot at breaking it?:rolleyes:

[JeKo]

Go with a dealer out of your state.. save yourself state sales tax which kills you on a $2500-$3000 axe. I ordered 2 TA's at once and saved a boatload by doing this. I found out the dealer won't help you on that **tax issue**..you will have money left over for strings and a tour bus.

This thing has always puzzled me about the US... Why does one get punished by having to pay extra taxes to "support" the local economy? :D It would be more logical the other way round.

[tom]

who said anything about taxes being logical? not to promote a political discussion.

[uburoibob]

A non-political response: it's because the states are still somewhat independent entities under the federal umbrella of the United States. Each has its own laws and programs that require funding. Thus the name of our country and the need for each state to raise it's own funds via taxes.

All the particulars are where politics come in, so I am gonna end this here...

Bob

[Jack Gretz]

Actually the sales tax thing works like this. As a sale that is out of your business location state, the seller is not required to collect sales tax, it is however your responsibility as the buyer to pay the sales tax for the sale.
So it really isnt that your dont have to pay, it is just that the dealer is not required to make you pay.

[lumco]

Actually the sales tax thing works like this. As a sale that is out of your business location state, the seller is not required to collect sales tax, it is however your responsibility as the buyer to pay the sales tax for the sale.
So it really isnt that your dont have to pay, it is just that the dealer is not required to make you pay.
[I am sure this is true but no buyer in the right frame of mind will do this.) why can't the dealer just work with you so the buyer can buy local, keep business in the state and everyone is happy. I have pretty much reached the point where its hard to support the local guy because of this. We are taxed to death. I am all for the small business man but to a struggling musician its hard to pony up the extra 5-10% for state tax. I will go out of state.

[Jack Gretz]

It brings up a unique point-
Let me ask as to what would you think is fair? What can a dealer do to keep the sale local? :) :)

[Devnor]

Jack you'd need to move to Texas.

[Jack Gretz]

I'll be there for the Dallas guitar show if that helps

[lumco]

It brings up a unique point-
Let me ask as to what would you think is fair? What can a dealer do to keep the sale local? :) :)
Reduce the price to the amount of the sales tax. otherwise why? TA guitars are all the same high quality no matter the dealer, most dealers in todays economy have embraced the internet to expand his or her business, so if a local dealer can offer a out of stater( $$ minus sales tax) why can't I get the same..? if I stay local. I don't need service on my TA...

[uburoibob]

Reduce the price to the amount of the sales tax. otherwise why? TA guitars are all the same high quality no matter the dealer, most dealers in todays economy have embraced the internet to expand his or her business, so if a local dealer can offer a out of stater( $$ minus sales tax) why can't I get the same..? if I stay local. I don't need service on my TA...

Even if the dealer reduces the price by the sales tax amount, he still has to pay sales tax if it's delivered locally. So, the whole thing is set up in a way that puts the local guy at a disadvantage. Thus the whole internet-wide sales tax push from the states. It will be interesting if that ever passes.

In the meantime, buying locally means you can actually audition a guitar and find the one that speaks to you the most. And not risk shipping it again. Yes, it costs money to live in the USA and in your state. Remember, every dealer is local to someone (except Musicians Friend).

Bob

[dannopelli]

Reduce the price to the amount of the sales tax. otherwise why? TA guitars are all the same high quality no matter the dealer, most dealers in todays economy have embraced the internet to expand his or her business, so if a local dealer can offer a out of stater( $$ minus sales tax) why can't I get the same..? if I stay local. I don't need service on my TA...

With all do respect, the economics of this proposal are impossible.

I am not trying to be mean, disrespectful, or go all The Gear Page on you. Really please don't take this that way. But I think you have to think this through to its several logical conclusions.

I just can't see how this is ever a practical proposal in a market driven economy. What you are suggesting is that businesses lower or even raise prices depending upon out of state sales or in state sales. They do this to create some sort of sales equality. But there are few if no market drivers to support this. The differential cost between sales tax vs. shipping is too dependent on too many variables to be controllable.

Assuming the average US sales tax around 6.5% the reality is that this type of tax equanimity environment you propose only occurs when the shipping cost of an item is significantly less than the sales tax to a degree that it breaks through the local dealer's inherent switching barriers.

Take these as examples:

If a person buys a $1000 guitar he's going to pay $65 in tax or $50 in shipping. That likely won't sway him not to buy it local. If he buys a $1000 snare drum he might as the tax vs. shipping differential might now be $25. But the true reality is he wants that snare that night. It is still not enough to overcome the local dealer's inherent switching barrier.

Now what about a $3000 guitar? Well now we are talking $195 in tax vs. $65 in shipping. That might do it. But think through. This only works for a guitar custom designed for a purchaser. An off the shelf item, not likely at all. The typical consumer is not going to go home and price that exact same guitar elsewhere and have it shipped. I mean, even for custom shop or boutique level guitars, there is such a difference from item to item, that it is not likely. They could look identical, but they likely won't play that way. Again the local dealer's inherent switching barrier will not be breached. The typical consumer loves the guitar in his hands, but does not know if the one at a shop in another state will be the same. In fact he is not even thinking about it. He has likely played that guitar at the shop 10 times before he finally breaks down and buys it.

And what about the $3000 drum kit? Shipping for that far outdistances tax. So that won't work for any similar item, including large keyboards, PA gear, etc.

You see, this becomes an unwieldy and never ending scenario. The only time it really works is for expensive custom orders of items that would cost more purchased locally than shipped. And I am sure Jack and most dealers would tell you there is a pretty high number of "custom orders" that people walk away from. Charge a non refundable deposit? In most states ALL deposits are refundable unless the "custom designed" item was of such a one of a kind nature that it could not be sold to another consumer. Things like custom suits and artwork maybe. No state IRS is going to be convinced that most guitars can't be sold to someone else. And no consumer or dealer is going to bear the legal expense associated with retrieving or holding onto that deposit, as that legal expense will cost more than the deposit.

So in the end the application of this is just too unwieldy.

Again, I do not want to be mean or disrespectful. I just believe that if you think this through, it's not practical. I just came up with a couple of reasons why not, but you could take this in many different directions.

There is only one way to fix it. Unfortunately the states that have sales tax are never going to get rid of it.

[lumco]

Now what about a $3000 guitar? Well now we are talking $195 in tax vs. $65 in shipping. That might do it. But think through. This only works for a guitar custom designed for a purchaser. An off the shelf item, not likely at all. The typical consumer is not going to go home and price that exact same guitar elsewhere and have it shipped. I mean, even for custom shop or boutique level guitars, there is such a difference from item to item, that it is not likely. They could look identical, but they likely won't play that way. Again the local dealer's inherent switching barrier will not be breached. The typical consumer loves the guitar in his hands, but does not know if the one at a shop in another state will be the same. In fact he is not even thinking about it. He has likely played that guitar at the shop 10 times before he finally breaks down and buys it


And there in lies the problem I have with your scenario...TYPICAL.CUSTOMER... that isn't your TA guys. I would bet most repeat TA buyers know what they want. So they spec it, order it, shop it to dealer out of state that gives you the best price and more than likely that dealer will even ship it FREE to get your business and you get the same guitar for $195 less, TIMES 2-3 TA guitars you might order. I am not really talking about the guy who walks in the local shop and falls in love with the $3000 Tom Anderson, I am sure there are some that do..myself I will take the $500-$600 savings and put towards my picks, strings, straps and a Turquois Tour Bus...and that my friend is not impossible economics. Simple cash in the pocket

[dannopelli]

[I][B].....


And there in lies the problem I have with your scenario...TYPICAL.CUSTOMER... that isn't your TA guys. I would bet most repeat TA buyers know what they want. So they spec it, order it, shop it to dealer out of state that gives you the best price and more than likely that dealer will even ship it FREE to get your business and you get the same guitar for $195 less, TIMES 2-3 TA guitars you might order. I am not really talking about the guy who walks in the local shop and falls in love with the $3000 Tom Anderson, I am sure there are some that do..myself I will take the $500-$600 savings and put towards my picks, strings, straps and a Turquois Tour Bus...and that my friend is not impossible economics. Simple cash in the pocket

Well, I guess if you assume that the typical Anderson buyer custom specs all his guitars that scenario would be accurate. I sincerely doubt that is the case. I don't have the data one way or another to prove it one way or another, so I could very well be dead wrong.

But I can make some educated guesses:

First, let's assume you are right, that the "typical Anderson" buyer custom specs his guitars. For your scenario to cause the typical local business person to cut a buyer a 6.5% or greater deal for a local sale on his 2 or three guitars, that buyer would need to be a regular who purchases the equivalent of that much per year all the time, be a family friend, or something like that. Or that would be one altruistic dealer. In other words, the dealer needs some motivation to cut 6.5% from his margin. More on that later.

However:
If you take a look at the websites of all of the USA TAG dealers, you'll see nearly all of them have Anderson inventory - some if it considerable. Many have Suhr, Grosh, Fender/Gibson Custom Shop, or other high end inventory also. If you live near or a regular at any of these shops, or just lurk on their websites from time to time, you'll see that inventory rotates. That evidence typically indicates that the dealers are for the most part choosing the specifications of the guitars that they know sell in their market. More sales are dealer spec not customer spec.

Using me as an example, I have been through 12 Andersons. I was through five in two years at one point. Two were spec'd and one of those actually was spec'd for someone else who backed out. I just happened into the store one day they told me about it and I only changed one minor thing. Of the twelve eight were brand new. In other words, 10 of my guitars were "off the rack." In fact one was eBay and one was a trade from TGP! But that does not mean I am typical either. But one thing I am sure of: I got a better deal on the last brand new Anderson I purchased from that shop than I did on the first!

From the dealer perspective, I think each one will operate based upon what is best for his or her business. As noted above, there was a period back when I had a super job that I was one of the top buyers at the store where I shopped. Got invited to all the cool things, free tickets to shows, etc. And I know I got a better deal than most. I was a volume customer of high end gear. But to ask a dealer to take a 6% or better flyer on an average or new customer ordering a customer spec, while the dealer weighs doing this against how many other "customer spec" guitars he has growing hair on the racks, well again, I guess I am still struggling to see it become a typical business practice.

That does not mean it WON'T happen, or doesn't. Just not likely to become a "standard practice."

And that is what makes America great. The ability to create your own destiny. If you can get a dealer to do what you propose GOD BLESS YOU! I never doubt the power of a good negotiator. Good friend of mine just got a HUGE discount on a car that just came out that no one is getting even small deals on. Most people are paying sticker +. You might be just like him.

And if you are that good a negotiator, then good for you, and I REALLY mean that. We, the consumers, need to cause our dealers to be competitive. And they will given a solid reason to do so.

Good brain exercise! Thanks!

[tom]

from the amount of hours and yes i mean hours we spend on the phone helping people sort out what they want, i would def say that the typical anderson buyer does not know what specs they need without lots of help. whether it's from us or the dealer.
yes the return buyer, and we are very grateful for them, does have a better idea of what they're after, and needs less hand holding.

[lumco]

from the amount of hours and yes i mean hours we spend on the phone helping people sort out what they want, i would def say that the typical anderson buyer does not know what specs they need without lots of help. whether it's from us or the dealer.
yes the return buyer, and we are very grateful for them, does have a better idea of what they're after, and needs less hand holding.



As only you and Roy would know..thnks for the thoughts..and for making good guitars...I still own a few..

[uburoibob]

I bought my first Anderson locally and didn't know I was even in the market for it until it was put into my hands by my dealer. I was ready to order another from him when I found exactly what I wanted at an online dealer. I did not get as good a deal from the online dealer, but did get a great and pretty unique guitar (the amberburst Bulldog with the vintage vibrato). So I've bought both ways and both transactions were good, with good people. My preference is to go local, though, both from a relationship with the dealer and from a "get to play the guitar before buying it" point of view.

Bob