Praise and Worship Band Song Dynamics

[Chris Lieder]

So, I think I have an interesting topic here. This is for those that are involved in Praise and Worship bands, whether leading or backing up in some way.

Do you guys practice a song a certain way and then play it exactly that way during the worship service or does it change? I'm talking about the flow and dynamics of a song. For example, in my band we practice through the songs the way they are on the albums (just follow the roadmap: V1, PreC, C, V2, etc...). When it comes to the worship service I have hand signals for repeat, back to the top, bridge, band out, etc... If the band watches the leader closely, then leading a song pretty dynamically is very achievable and rewarding. I'm curious what other church bands are doing these days...

Would welcome any input! :)

[tom]

we always practice with a road map in mind, and often times we follow it very closely. but also often the leader will call out or body motion a change, which i very much enjoy. i've been playing with matt enough years now that he is easy to follow. he has many tells as to where he wants to go and everyone is good enough to read them easily. that's always the case with other leaders, but then that's an adventure too. sometimes the worst rehearsals turn into great times of worship. i love not being glued to the music and moving wherever the spirit leads.

[bud]

i love not being glued to the music and moving wherever the spirit leads.

Amen Tom! If you have a band that is accustomed to and comfortable being in the moment, (for me that is the real joy of a musical dialog) it creates an energy flow between the band and congregation that takes things to their best place. If the band isn't comfortable with that, you can't force that on them, use a set arrangement. Whichever strategy elicits the most confident performance is the way to go, IMHO.

[Chris Lieder]

Tom, I agree with you completely. It's important that God get's his way. The band has to be attentive enough and skilled enough to where they are waiting for those signals or signs and know what to do accordingly. We have rotating musicians with new musicians being added all the time. We typically have long worship services, which by the way is a blast! So I will pick maybe 8-9 songs for an upfront set. We have our own software that we wrote, that can be controlled with a foot pedal for us guitarists, that has all of our lead sheets in pdf format. Each musician has their own portrait style LCD screen to read the music from. It is typical that even though we pick an up front set and practice it, that it becomes apparent that the Spirit is going somewhere other than what I had originally planned for. Thus, I start picking songs on the fly depending on what the current need is for that point in time, I change the song and it changes for everyone on their screens. Because the repertoire of songs available to choose from is typically pretty large, maybe 100 songs or more, it is important that everyone is on their game, listening to tons of worship music. It's a very interesting dynamic and a lot of fun, but it can be demanding and intimidating for a leader. On a typical Friday night or Sunday morning we will play about 20 songs... never really actually counted, might be more...

[Briggs]

The way we look at worship is: God is the audience, the congregation is (are) the singers, and the band is there to help them along. We learn/practice songs usually one way, but that way can change on Sunday morning depending on the mood/feel of the congregation. If we need to take it up or down a notch for energy we do. We also may repeat choruses or lines that reiterate the theme/message for the day. We've even changed closing songs as the sermon unfolded. Really, it's a lot like how Tom put it with the "map" thing, we have a general idea of how the songs should go but we leave flexibility to be open to the Spirit moving throughout the service.

[Pietro]

Okay...

...I'll be the nay-sayer.

Aside from occasionally repeating a chorus at the end of a song... I NEVER shake up the order or dynamics "in the moment". Where I have been working (I'm currently "between church jobs") my musicians are very much NOT up to "spontaneity" in the moment. Not only that, but my lyric people can't keep up with that, my sound and lights, etc.

I understand that in some arenas the spontaneous thing works well like that, but more often than not, when I've seen it practiced, it creates a wonderful moment for the musicians... but not so much for the congregation, as the lyrics that they need come up late, etc.

Also, I do multiple services (3). What's spontaneous the first service might be the same the other two i it works... so go ahead and plan it and make it more likely to "work". Fact is, you can plan this spontaneity, too (just like God plans so much stuff thousands of years ahead). Say the congregation is used to C - V - C - V - C - C... start off with the verse instead... repeat the channel... change the dynamics from what they've seen before... but if you plan it and everything works perfectly, it's just as powerful (if not moreso) than if you are just "in the moment".

[tom]

Not sayin' there's anything wrong with planning, we do plan what we're going to do, and have seen spontaneity work poorly, but maybe our awesome guitars help us pull it off(just kidding). When it happens its the greatest part of my day and people always come up to says thanks for our gifts, not because we play well, but because they felt a strong connection.

[Ray K.]

sometimes the worst rehearsals turn into great times of worship. i love not being glued to the music and moving wherever the spirit leads.Yes!! I couldn't agree more.

We learn/practice songs usually one way, but that way can change on Sunday morning depending on the mood/feel of the congregation.And again!

Our main Worship Leader may also spontaneously have everyone go acapella for a verse or chorus, and then might bring us back in. All done with a few signals. Not bragging, but our band is tight enough that we manage to pull it off 99% of the time. I love it...keeps me on my toes, changes things up so it's not always vanilla, etc.

Btw, we happen to be in transition right now. Our Worship Leader has moved to another position in the church after 23 years. He needed to go there, it was badly needed, and he seems the perfect candidate for that ministry. Meanwhile, we keep doing our thing without missing a bit (no pun intended) as we are dedicated to serving God first by serving others, not just our WL. Meantime, if everything goes as planned, we have a new WL coming within a matter of a few weeks. Exciting times!

Good discussion!

Ray K.

[Pietro]

...not because we play well, but because they felt a strong connection.

I love when it happens that way!

[Briggs]

my musicians are very much NOT up to "spontaneity" in the moment. Not only that, but my lyric people can't keep up with that, my sound and lights, etc.


I totally understand and have been there before. I've led worship at three different churches and my current church is the only one I've been able to do this. I wouldn't have dreamed of doing the 'spontaneity' thing with the previous two bands, they would have freaked out on me. The band definitely has to have a great sense for worship and the flexibility to go with the flow. Saying that, I don't think there is a right or better way to do it. It comes down to personalities, of the worship leader, the band, and the congregation. If everyone can do it great, if not that's great too as long as everything glorifies Him.

[tom]

oh, and chris, 20 songs, dang, i want to play there. we get about 40 minutes total and usually that means 6 songs.

[guitarzan]

If we do a heavy music weekend, it's still only 5 or 6 songs. Normally it's 4. Kinda bums me out cuz I'd rather spend some more time in worship.

If we played 20 songs a Sunday, I'd have an excuse to buy more guitars!!!

[Chris Lieder]

Heck yeah, more guitars! I was able to talk my wife into getting my C+2 because of worship stuff. I was like, “It’s a worship leader’s dream guitar! Please!!!!”

We do play for a long time. Usually about 4 hours per Sunday morning. Practice is two hours long, and the amount of no kidding worship time is at least 2 hours. Practice goes from 9-11am, then worship starts at 11 and goes to about 12:30 (roughly…always changes depending on the morning), and then preaching goes for about 20 to 30 minutes (sometimes more, but rare), then we get back up and play for another 30 minutes or so. We also have a service on Friday nights as well, with the same amount of worship time, practice is much shorter though. Whether or not we play exactly 20 songs during the worship time, I’m not to sure…We may do more, I haven’t ever really counted.

One thing I’ve learned so far is that as we serve God with our gifts, we are also serving our congregations. To that end, we make a point to learn and play the songs as close to possible as the congregation would hear it on their CDs in their car, or on their iPod at home. From what I’ve experienced, people really appreciate or connect with a certain chorus or verse and want to sing it several times. Musically we stick to the doing it the way the artists do it, but flow… well, we go with the flow. We attempt to eliminate as many distractions as possible and create an environment where the congregation can worship God. To achieve this, it is very crucial for the musicians, the sound crew, and the computer (lyrics) crew to be on their game. To be paying attention and expecting changes in direction. Our crew is typically pretty good at this, because they are trained to do so. Our congregation expects the worship service to be free because that is what they are used to, and for many of them, that is why they come. Because of this we can implement this kind of dynamic flow… because the congregation we are serving is used to and is expecting it. The band and tech crew is also used to it and expecting it as well. Other people may not be used to this type of dynamic and it would be distracting for them, especially if the band and tech crew are not paying attention.

There’s been many times where we have been doing upfront, crazy, jumpin, call to worship type songs, and then when I get to the more intimate stuff, it is obvious that people aren’t ready to go there. Or the other way around, we are at the bottom of our dynamics rollercoaster in the worship service and I’m ready to start picking it up, but it’s obvious that people just want to sit there and hang out at the feet of Jesus. In cases like this, which happens all the time, I just have to be sensitive to what is happening and go with the flow. I'm not going to lie, doing this is very challenging and demanding. Most of the time, I don't know what song I'm going to do next until we are about to end the last song.

With all that said, and like you guys said, we have to do what the congregation is comfortable with.

Sorry for the long post, I love this stuff. Good discussion…

[Chris Lieder]

Oh and Tom (or anyone), we are always more than happy to have guest musicians, if you are ever in the Fresno area.

[curtisjames]

Why cant we start a church that plays one hour....teaches for fifteen ....& then five minutes of current info every Sunday?.... IMHO.....we'd be as close to heaven, on earth.

[tom]

one thing i might add for any non church goers who are reading this. i hope no one is reading any of this as preachy, we're just talking about how we do what we do and hoping to learn how to do it better. music can be a very powerful connection for lots of people.

one of the guys here at the shop, who isn't a church goer commented how all the pictures of people in church singing always look like they are sad or in pain. to me those deep introspective looks are what it feels like to be really grateful. that's mostly what i feel when i am in a deep worship environment. yes there are times of regret but it is always more about gratefulness and forgiveness. these are not emotions only for the church, they are things people can and should feel on a regular basis. when was the last time you were really grateful? it could come from anywhere, your wife/significant other does a selfless act for you, or just a kind word at the right time from a fellow worker. it could even come from a hokey country song that reminds you of your mom or dad. heck you might even remember a great old dog who loved you unconditionally.

music is powerful stuff, use it wisely.

[Pietro]

music is powerful stuff, use it wisely.

That would be a good tagline to imprint on the back of all your headstocks!

[guitarzan]

This is one of the best threads I've ever read on a forum. Kinda gets me fired up for Sunday again.

And I'm in Houston speaking at a worship conference this week. Funny, this thread has me more fired up than my conference workshop!! Haha

[pneil]

Both of the churches I play at now (one I attend and the other is filling in for a worship pastor friend of mine) are very improvisational. Practice is fine but may not have any bearing on what we actually do :-). At my church we do a monthly Sunday night worship service. The last time we started with a list of 20 songs. We played for 90 minutes and had done 3 songs off the list :-). The good news is that all the players involved are more than able to pull this off so it just ends up being an adventure. We can practice, but if that's not the direction the Spirit is leading, it's our obligation to follow.

[Pietro]

Both of the churches I play at now (one I attend and the other is filling in for a worship pastor friend of mine) are very improvisational. Practice is fine but may not have any bearing on what we actually do :-). At my church we do a monthly Sunday night worship service. The last time we started with a list of 20 songs. We played for 90 minutes and had done 3 songs off the list :-). The good news is that all the players involved are more than able to pull this off so it just ends up being an adventure. We can practice, but if that's not the direction the Spirit is leading, it's our obligation to follow.

Okay... I'll push back a little...

If you consistently find that practice is one thing and the Spirit leading you in a service is another... I might suggest adjusting how you practice... or at least evaluating it a bit.

[curtisjames]

Tom.....we all know your a cool dude. keep it up.....we thank you

[tom]

what i really was trying to say is that it's not about playing or looking cool or showing your skills, but rather about being a part of something larger than yourself and being sensitive to others. i gotta say that playing in the church is the absolute best playing experience i've ever had. both spiritually and musically.

[Ray K.]

i gotta say that playing in the church is the absolute best playing experience i've ever had. both spiritually and musically.I agree with what else you said, but this really strikes a chord (pun?) with me. Our folks clap and give out nice comments, but I would be perfectly okay if they didn't...I think you know what I mean.

Ray K.

[pneil]

Okay... I'll push back a little...

If you consistently find that practice is one thing and the Spirit leading you in a service is another... I might suggest adjusting how you practice... or at least evaluating it a bit.

Thats legitimate. And we do. There are mornings where we just take 10 or 15 minutes and play spontaneously. It's amazing to me. The bottom line is that nothing is fixed and it's driven by the Spirit and is at the discretion of the leader. He's in charge and we take our cues from him.

In retrospect, most of the really amazing musical experiences I've had were that way. When the band was really "on", the cool stuff wasn't what was rehearsed. The rehearsal is what gets you comfortable enough to play the stuff you didn't rehearse. Know what I mean? The amazing stuff happens when one person zigs instead of zags, and everyone follows suite and builds on it. Good jazz improv is that way too.

[Briggs]

what i really was trying to say is that it's not about playing or looking cool or showing your skills, but rather about being a part of something larger than yourself and being sensitive to others.

I couldn't agree more Tom, at a previous church where the facility allowed, we did a service where we set the band up behind the congregation to take the focus off of us and only had a cross on the stage. It was an amazing service that really kind of put things in perspective for both the band and congregation.

[Chris Lieder]

I couldn't agree more Tom, at a previous church where the facility allowed, we did a service where we set the band up behind the congregation to take the focus off of us and only had a cross on the stage. It was an amazing service that really kind of put things in perspective for both the band and congregation.

Dude, that is AWESOME! I've always wanted to do that! When I first started leading worship, they wanted me and the band on a stage that was like 5 feet higher than everyone. I said no, the band goes on the floor with everyone else. Being behind them would be even cooler.

[tom]

Chris, i'm curious about the big you mentioned that gives all the players the lead sheets when you decide on what song is next. Not that we can probably afford it, but it sure sounds cool. Does it also send to the house screens?

[Pietro]

Being behind them would be even cooler.

I've done this. It rocks!

[GuitArtMan]

We never play a song the same way once - let alone twice! We often ask ourselves why bother to practice? We'll play it one way Monday night during practice, another way during the Sunday AM sound check and yet another way during the service. Trying to follow our worship leader is like trying to follow a kitten in a bathtub with a ping pong ball - you never know which way he's gonna go and/or when. I understand what Tom says about following the spirit, but when your playing a song with tight changes that demand you nail them, but you have to tread lightly because you never know which way the leader is going to go, it gets very, very frustrating. He adds measures, drops measures, adds beats, drops beats, goes left when he should go right, zigs when he should have zaged, etc., etc., etc. I love him dearly and he's got a great big hart heart for God, but he can't count to save his life. The piano player deserves a purple heart for accompanying him on solo pieces/sections. I miss our previous worship leader who really strived for excellence in the music.

[tom]

That would get old real fast. Sounds like someone or a group of someone's needs to have a talk. If the band can't follow, how is the congegation supposed to?

[Briggs]

Guitartman, it does seem, if that is consistently happening, that some conversations done in love and for the good of the service are in order. I know everyone's style is different, but for me, as a worship leader, I make sure I know the songs before bringing them to the band. Maybe your WL needs to take a little more time in learning the songs and deciding how they will go before practicing them with the band and definitely before bringing them to the congregation. If you can't get to where you can do the song the same way twice during practice then you're not ready to bring it out in a worship service. That's just a train wreck waiting to happen. Just my $.02

[Chris Lieder]

Okay, sorry for another long post. I would have PM’d this to tom, but I figured everyone else might be interested in what we do as well.

Tom, it's a system one of our guys created. In the past we worked off of printed lead sheets, everyone had their own binder and once the leader knew what song they were choosing next, he would inform the background vocals, who stood right behind him, who would then inform the rest of the band in a daisy chain format. The next guy would tell the next guy what song we were doing next. He would also have to flip a switch on his mic system which muted his signal to the house, but kept it on for the FOH team, he would have to verbally tell them what song we were doing, or catch on really quickly what we were doing. As you can imagine this became kind of cumbersome. We have four worship leaders, with one in charge of the whole gig. Two of our guys, before I joined them, set out to write software and create a system that would make what we do a lot easier. Since we need to be able to choose songs for what is currently happening, we usually don’t know what we are doing next ahead of time. Typically we pick a set list, based on what we feel led to do at the time. We practice that set list and then things change mid service, so we need to go a different direction, in which case, having the freedom to change songs is crucial. Have you ever been doing a song and it become immediately apparent that people aren’t responding?

Anyways, the system makes use of one computer, VGA/DVI hub, custom software, and some footpedals/keyboards for controlling it. Everyone sees what the leader sees, including the FOH guys so they can follow what songs we are doing for the overhead lyrics. All leaders make use of the computer and video system, so we are all working digitally, but each leader has a different implementation. The software each leader uses is slightly different.

One guy (a keyboardist) used File Maker to create his software, he uses a touch screen to change his music. Because he is using file maker, he can add information to the document, like keys, song type, tempo, etc… so he can see a list of songs in whatever way he wants. If I’m already playing in the key of A, why not see what else we have in the key of A we can do. Or if we are playing a call to worship type song, what other songs do we have like that that we can do. This makes selecting our next song a little easier.

Our electric guitarist, who also leads, wrote some software from scratch to basically do the same thing. I prefer his implementation. He made a foot pedal that controls our system, which is important for guitarists. We can organize songs lists in similar ways and choose our next song all with our footpedal, the list that comes up takes little real estate on the screen so we can continue to play the last song while I am looking for the next song. This take a lot of coordination. I’m thinking about and doing a lot at one time while leading. Directing/listening to the band and thinking about the current song we are playing/singing, thinking about where we are going next (which involves key, dynamics, theme, etc… as you all know), navigating the software (which is pretty easy), paying attention to what is happening out in the congregation, and also paying attention to the pastor’s needs. Say for example I am playing an upfront call to worship type song in the key of A. I can press a certain button on the footpedal and the list will return all songs that or of the same type and same key. Or I can just see everything of the same type, or everything of the same key. Just different ways to see our lists. The software has a few other cool features, which I won’t go into right now, but I can let you know more details if you are interested. The idea is to automate and simplify things as much as possible to make the leader’s job easier to lead.

Our main worship leader’s implementation (a keyboardist) basically uses a folder with all his pdf’s in it. He uses a computer keyboard to navigate his files, and has a list of all his songs, organized by key, laying on his keyboard that he can look at to select his next song. His implementation is much simpler, but has its flaws just like all of ours do. One flaw that is inherent in all these systems is the inability for each musician to take notes on their music. I don’t want to understate this, because it is a huge flaw. Solving this issue would require each musician having their own computer and touchscreen. The leaders computer (mine) would talk to everyone else’s computer to tell it what song to pull up. It would then pull up the correct song with each musicians personal notes. Since we have rotating musicians, this would be extrememely helpful.

While our guys were making their software with the intention of going into business and marketing it, some other guys were doing pretty much the same thing and already has a pretty good implementation of it. I’ve never used it, but I think it will accomplish the same thing. Each person has their own computer and touch screen, and I think each person can take separate notes. The link to their website is:

http://www.samepagemusic.com/Play/Splash.aspx

If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask. Our software and implimentation isn't perfect, but it does the job, and its what we have for now.

[Briggs]

i'm.in.awe. :eek: I can barely remember to step on my tuner to unmute my guitar!!

[tom]

Yikes! All I can say is yikes!

[Chris Lieder]

It's fair to say I was a little intimidated to lead worship there. To get spiritual about it, it requires a huge amount of trust in the Lord that he would lead me in that moment. It took a huge jump for me to go from trusting God about a setlist as compared to trusting that I will know which song to choose next in that moment. All I can say is it is 100% God, becuase left to myself, I will make a huge mess of it all. I think some of us can say that about ourselves and our lives in general, left to myself, I would make a mess of my own life. I don't know how He does it but He does, and I am grateful for it.

Like Tom said earlier, for those of you reading this that don't share the same belief, it would be like playing a gig and choosing the setlist as you go, trusting your instinct/emotions that the song you are choosing next is the right one for that moment, and that that song will have the most influence on the people in the room at that time.

I've found that trusting God in this way has been extremely effective, rewarding, and impactful for everyone involved, especially our congregation.

[chasyboy]

Great discussion...thanks Corey (Guitarzan) for clueing me in.

I love all the ways people are using technology to facilitate making music. But what happens when you work with people who aren't all that savvy on stuff like charts and such? I started a gig at a church where they were introducing Contemporary music to a traditional congregation. So I started doing all the usual stuff (Tomlin, Brewster, etc...) but the musicians were just not schooled or disciplined. Sure, I sent charts, mp3's, lyrics...taught them how to make their own Master books and alphabetize them...only to find out that they couldn't actually read 'charts'. So I started posting Cowboy Charts.

Funny thing happened. They actually got a lot better. On Cowboy Charts...it is sure hard to know exactly where you are as the roadmaps are in some ways harder to read than a transcribed chart. BUT if the leader 'leads' (something I had to learn)...the players start to play with their instincts.

For me, I have over 350 songs on my iPad using unRealbook with most of them in single Cowboy charts. (I do keep a separate folder of all the Finale charts...just in case...and have them in varied keys). You can highlight, annotate, list your tempos, run a metronome, even pull up an mp3 of the song right in the song file (VERY handy when there's a discrepancy of what the recording did...and play it right there). Far from perfect but if you are willing to be free with some stuff and not be afraid of the proverbial clam chowder that often ensues (and a VERY understanding PowerPoint or Media Shout lyric guy), you might be surprised. Also, consider putting fewer lyrics up for people to follow. Research shows that people 'understand' a message less when they have to read and listen. Imagine the downside if they read, listen and try to sing. I think that's why there's so many choruses in worship music...people need to say it over and over before it really sets in.

BTW - if everyone uses an iPad...there's several ways to share docs...so if you add songs, it can be done by a push of the button.

[Yarbz]

one of the guys here at the shop, who isn't a church goer commented how all the pictures of people in church singing always look like they are sad or in pain. to me those deep introspective looks are what it feels like to be really grateful. that's mostly what i feel when i am in a deep worship environment. yes there are times of regret but it is always more about gratefulness and forgiveness. these are not emotions only for the church, they are things people can and should feel on a regular basis.

Hey Tom. This really hit home with me when I read it today. I'm 46 yrs old and have been playing in church since high school. The new worship leaders seem to think you should be jumping across stage with your hair on fire or the congregation will not engage with the band. I'm constantly being reminded that I need to move around the stage and smile all the time but this goes against my natural posture of humility, reverence and gratitude. I'm glad I am not the only one who feels this way.