Parts - Tone Contribution...Bright or Mellow?

[harritone]

The search continues as I look as to why my beloved HDTC(hollow basswood w/ quilt maple - solid maple neck) is b-b-bright! and "off" sounding. Before I invest the money to send the guitar or perhaps just the pickguard back to headquarters, if you feel up to it, your feedback would be great.......what are your experiences on the following parts and their job/contribution to your guitars' tone?...

1) Nut - Bone vs. Ebony vs. Graph-Tech Tusq

2) Saddles - old steel/nickel plated - do they those their strength/density with time, rust and exposure?

3) Block - Zinc vs. Steel (Guitar came with zinc)I really like my older Callaham 1055 block in there - I have an older HDTC '97 w/ the older gotoh bridge, it seems like it clears things up a bit, beefs up the low-end...cant tell if it is a brightener though)

4) Steel frets vs. nickel - I was told steel doesn't brighten...

5) Electronics - Im thinking like Tom told me earlier, swapping the pickups out at least 4-6 times, might be the winner here...

I have it set-up with very, very little relief and about 3/64ths at the 17th fret @ string. Tired of reading yet?...

[tom]

of everything but the pickups, the block would be the biggest change in tone. zinc is much warmer, steel has mush more zing on top and highs on the low strings. the other things are either way minor or non existent. if vintage voicing got removed that would also contribute to harshness.

[harritone]

cool....thx again man...looks like I be sending just the pg to ya for a new electronics system, pots, etc....

[wolf]

My beloved Drop Top is totally original except I had a brass block made for the Fishman made trem.

Made a HUGE improvement in the tone ( for my tastes )

I didn't like the hardness I heard in the original steel block.
The brass softened the top, and boosted the mids and lows... to me it evened out the tone.

I love what it did and my Anderson instantly became for main guitar for live and session work.

I can't play live these days since I lost my hearing, as per my previous thread, but my Anderson gets used a lot by my best mate for his session career and he rates it as the single best guitar he's ever played. :D

[harritone]

Brass...wow..never heard that one. Sounds tempting to the tweakers' mind!...sorry to hear about the hearing thing man.....

tom...what brand/model/material nut do you guys use?....

[tom]

we use graph tech tusq.

[kingtone]

I have a lot of interest in this thread since I feel like I am fighting a battle against this issue on a guitar that I love. (not an anderson btw) On mine the acoustic tone is noticeably brighter especially if you dig in. If I play VERY softly or turn the tone control down a little it sounds about right. I play fairly soft anyway but using accents make the tone unpleasant.

Here is what I "think" I have learned. For me...

1. Chambered bodies usually lose too much fullness for my taste.

2. If your guitar has very, very little relief there is more tendency for a buzzier thin sound. This is unfortunate because for playability I like them straight as I can get, for example a relief of around .006 like anderson uses feels great. However in my experience a lot of guitars will not play cleanly set like an anderson.

3. If you tune down a half step (like I do in the rock band that I play in) the buzz is worse because neck tension/relief is slightly different.

4. Saddles make a surprising difference. For what I have heard in the past, bent vintage style saddles usually sound thinner.

5. Fretboards seem to make a difference, at least I think they do. All the guitars I have had with indian rosewood seem to be pretty good and mellow. My guitar that I speak of, has a brazilian rosewood fretboard, I believe this may be a big part of the brightness.

6. The one thing I have not tried on my guitar is the block, I thought about the brass like kgc, etc, but a fairly knowledgeable guy on another forum insisted that the brass had kind of a scooped mid sound which sounds like just what I don't want. I was afraid to make an experimental $100 purchase because if the block was not magic then how could I recoup the money? On the other hand I recently aquired a prs custom 24 that has a brass block and that guitar sounds good as far as acoustic tone and of course plugged in as well.

What about a hardtail like on my cobra special? Sometimes it can be bright..? Anyone (especially Tom or Wolf?) that wants to chime in about any of this, especially the brass block part, please do so...

my 2 cents...more like $1.75.

[tom]

been years since i've used brass so i can't give a current value on it. zinc is certainly darker and mellower than steel,might be very good for the trem guitar.
flatter neck is a very good thing to mention. love the fell of that myself, but when you dig in hard you do get more rattle which to me also translates to thinner sounding.
since i don't know any more about your non anderson i can't be more help but if you fill in more details i'm happy to try and help.
on the non trem, what are the rest of the details of the guitar? wood, pickup saddles?

[kingtone]

The non anderson (ok it's a suhr!) and the cobra special have one thing in common. The suhr has a fishman trem and the special has the fishman saddles. I changed both to graphtech ferraglides. I think that helped some but not all the way there. The suhr is more sensitive when digging in a bit.

The cobra special is a hardtail (solid body, p-90, gold top, no quilt or flame, 2003 I believe) the rest of the specs you know other than the neck is +.040. Great neck by the way. Mainly the tone is pretty right through the amp if I don't dig too hard. I recently put the fishman saddles back on just to see...I think I am going back to the ferraglides.

I think the issues with both are more acoustic related than pickups etc.

Just for reference I have a cobra s (2006) and the acoustic tone is ideal with a pretty straight neck. Has gotoh trem w/ferraglides and wedgie neck.

I want to add that I don't play very hard overall, I am, by nature, more of a fusion player. I love playing like holdsworth, eric johnson, jimmy herring etc. I tend to be in that mode much of the time.

[tom]

how's the weight dif between the cobras? if it's similar on both it would seem strange that the non trem was brighter acoustically. actually if they are similar in weight then the nontrem likely has a harder heavier body since the trem adds a fair amount of weight.

[kingtone]

The weight does not seem to be really a whole lot different between them although I have not checked the cobra special. The cobra s is (if I remember) 7.8 or so on my food scale. They are both pretty close to that. The special is a gold top and the s has the maple top. I would have thought if one were brighter it would be the one without the top. The s has the wedgie neck and the special has the 4 bolt style joint. They are both great guitars, I just wish I could tweak the acoustic sound a hair.

[tom]

just so i'm clear, the special has a top and it's solid?
you like the electric sound but not the acoustic sound?

[kingtone]

Here is the special

Model - Cobra Special
Body Finish - Sparkle Gold
Body Wood - Mahogany
Neck Wood - Mahogany, African Rosewood Fretboard
Neck Finish - Matching Headstock, Satin Back
Nutwidth - 1 11/16 in
Frets - Heavy
Back Shape - Cobra Std +.040
Hardware - Chrome
Bridge - Non-Tremolo Fixed Bridge
Pickguard -
Pickups - P1R P1 P3
Switching - 5 Way, Pull Adds Bridge
Strings - .010-.046 Elixir strings
Comments -

I changed the pickups to fralin noiseless p-90s, this was right before you released your noiseless p-90! I don't know how I timed that one. I also have a different treble bleed, just a low value cap no resistor. This guitar is really nice but(I think a lot of it is the fishman saddles) it has a little of what you might call "bright compression." Digging in brightens, couldn't be that uncommon with a really straight neck.

Here is the cobra s

Model - Cobra S
Body Finish - Translucent Yellow with Binding
Body Wood - Flamed Maple Top on Mahogany
Neck Wood - Mahogany, African Rosewood Fretboard
Neck Finish - Matching Headstock, Satin Back
Nutwidth - 1 11/16 in
Frets - Heavy
Back Shape -
Hardware - Chrome
Bridge - Vintage Tremolo
Pickguard -
Pickups - H1- H2+
Switching - 5 Way, Pull on Tone Knob splits middle position
Strings - .010-.046 Elixir strings

This one has HO2 pickups in both positions and the same kind of treble bleed as the special. Acoustic tone is very good. To make it thin or buzzy you have to overdo the digging in part. Playing normally it is just fine.

All of this is my obsession with minor details, I just got interested in the thread when I saw some familiar stuff.

[tom]

fishman saddles certainly have a high end zing that i hear more acoustically than amplified.
as long we're talking details, body shape is something to consider. if all else were equal, which it's not, tele shaped guitars always have more bottom and top, strat shapes have more middle. could be a little of the extra top you're hearing on the special. but i suspect it's just a little heavier body(without the trem weight). maybe a little harder fingerboard too. one of the reasons we abandoned the african(some call it madagascar these days) fingerboards was their inconsistent density. some are very hard and some are much softer.

[kingtone]

Tom as always thanks for your insightful replies! Tell me about the tonal difference of hard as opposed to softer wood, especially fretboards. Is harder brighter and softer more mellow? Is indian rosewood a softer rosewood? It seems like indian rosewood fretboard guitars have sounded good to me in the past. Is brazilian rosewood harder?

[tom]

yes, harder wood usually translates to harder tone. i know brazilian is the "holy grail for cork sniffers, but it has a harder top end that i don't find pleasing on many guitars.
indian is a bit softer but also has more air in it. i really like what it brings to the table harmonics wise.

[kingtone]

That is kind of what I thought. I think that is why I have issues with the brazilian fretboard on one guitar.