9 Volt Batterys, Am I hearing things?

[getgo]

Don't know what led me to do this but this evening I took the energizer battery out of my Crowdster and put in a duracell and I have to say, to my ear, the energizer sounds better. Am I crazy??

[killerburst]

Probably. Just being a guitar player puts you at a high risk from the start. That being said, if you hear a diffrence, then there is a difference. Some people call EJ crazy for his battery conviction. Whether it's real or imaginary, any difference that you perceive will affect your relationship with your gear and tone. If an Energizer makes you sound better (even if it's just in your head) then you will likely play better with an Energizer in your Crowdster. And ultimately, it's the music that matters. But you're still not off the hook on the whole "crazy" thing.

[getgo]

Originally posted by killerburst
But you're still not off the hook on the whole "crazy" thing.

:D :D Good one!! maybe one is just a little fresher than the other?

[tom]

fresher may be the deal, but i'd have to agree with kb that if you hear it, it makes a difference in the way you play, whether anyone else can hear it is not the issue. what they will hear is you playing better or more inspired.

[Stan Malinowski]

I've heard people claim they can hear differences in some pedals depending on if they use alkaline batteries or the old "cheapo" standard batteries - most of them prefer the cheapo ones!

I've also heard about "battery sag" which I believes occurs in batteries as they wear down from use. Once again some tone experst prefer the battery sag. I even recall one pedalboard company which offered a power supply with a pot to adjust battery sag to the pedals.

[BFC]

Here's an interesting read in regards to 'old style' carbon zinc batteries compared to more modern types...

"The reason why the batteries could make a difference goes back to how one analyses a battery, electrically.

A battery is considered to be a perfect power source, capable of infinite current sourcing, with a built-in series resistance which imposes a limit on the current draught. Of course, if you cut open a battery, you won't find a resistor. It's part of the composition of the cell. It's just part of the analysis to isolate it.

For those with electronic training, you will recognize this as the Thevenin equivalent resistance, sometimes understood as ESR (which applies to capacitors and inductors, since ESR is a frequency dependent quantity by definition).

Way back when transistors were first used in gadgets, when the technology was in it's infancy and designers were more used to tubes in their designs, there were performance issues where a portable transistor device would perform well, then as the battery aged, would break into instability, sometimes into feedback. Replacing the battery would fix this.

Electrically, what happens is as the battery undergoes a chemical change due to electrical discharge, the Thevenin equivalent resistance increases (which is why there is relatively little difference in the open circuit voltage between a new and a weak battery, as measured on a high-impedance digital meter. Batteries have to be measured under a given load current in order to yield a meaningful result).

If the circuit is designed poorly, without sufficient isolation from the power supply and any instability within (called decoupling), then the circuit's performance alters significantly with the increase of the battery's Thevenin resistance, often for the worse; distorted output, diminished output, change in operating point, and degressing into oscillation, and then shutdown.

In such circuits, the battery's low initial Thevenin resistance is relied upon to provide decoupling. Then as the battery ages, the circuit loses decoupling.

A well designed circuit will operate predictably, and will be designed to accomodate nearly all power supply fluctuations.

What they're advertizing is the effect of early solid state equipment, which was notorious for glitches and instability, and calling it a classic sound by the use of relatively primitive battery technology. (In their fervor to recreate vintage "anything," I'm actually surprised they don't revert to Germanium devices and Bakelite PC boards, btw! Yuk! What a nightmare!)

Alkalines have a much lower (new) Thevenin equivalent resistance, and maintain it fairly well over their life span, and Lithiums (and obsolete Mercury) cells provide even better performance and are used mainly in instrumentation, where long term stability are important. Lithium "D" cells are often used in satellites, for example, because of their stability.

So, clipping and distortion on a circuit, operated by such a power supply as an Alkaline cell, may contain higher energy content in the upper frequencies, accounting for "harshness", where a carbon/zinc cell, with it's higher Thevenin equivalent resistance, will cause slight "dips" in running voltage, effectively "softening" the clipping because of the higher resistance and the resulting lowered energy content in the upper frequencies as the device works into it's load."

[Stan Malinowski]

Scary, 25 years ago when I was going for my Electrical Engineering degree I would have known exactly what Brian was talking about. However I got sucked in by the software monster and lost most of my hardware knowledge (as well as many of my brain cells). I'll have to pull out the old textbooks and try to decipher BFC's post!:D

[nickdahl]

Originally posted by Stan Malinowski
I've also heard about "battery sag" which I believes occurs in batteries as they wear down from use. Once again some tone experst prefer the battery sag. I even recall one pedalboard company which offered a power supply with a pot to adjust battery sag to the pedals.

The Pedal Power 2 from Voodoo Lab has this capability. I power my wah with it, and sag the power a bit. Again, I think it's one of those things where I think it sounds better, therefore, I use it.

Nick