Gain staging your live rig, related to FOH

[Ray K.]

Just curious how others deal with setting up the gain staging of their pedals/pedalboards and amp(s)? I'm talking about in relation to the signal that's hitting the front end or preamp of the console for your channel strip?

Adjusting the levels of, especially, your gain pedals - to keep the SE from having to trim or adjust preamp gain, and having to ride your fader. How do you deal with situations such as when you want or need to do a pedal swap, for instance?

I have a great "working" relationship with our SE/PM, but I'd like to know what's happening with those of you that play live regularly.

I hope my post makes sense...if not, please ask.

Thanks,
Ray K.

[tom]

in regards to pedal gain or level, that's all relative to my amps volume. some things are unity and some i like a little louder based on how they get used in any given song. my playing situation is pretty consistent but we do have several sound people so it can get interesting. i do keep my base volume(amp alone) very constant so the pedals can be used for dynamics purposes. we don't have a problem with any of them knowing what to do with a trim pot to make sure i'm not overloading anything. i think your responisibility is to give a uniform enough signal so that they are not having to mess with the trim during an event. they usually ask me for my loudest sound at sound check(i usually hold back just a bit:o ). i try to control my solo volume so they don't have to remember to boost me fro a solo.

[Pietro]

I try real hard to make my gain sound the same volume as clean, then I also have two boosts available to add about 5db per (one is in my M13 and one is my EP booster set pretty low, but lately that's been "on" most of the time). Both clean boosts at once give me a real nice gentle amp overdrive. Then I switch between single (my usual default) and humbucker to add even more. I use, however, almost NO "high gain" and no fuzz.

I have higher gain stuff available in my M13 but rarely call on it.

[Casper]

Our FOH guy will tell me I'm too thin sounding often. I just mic my amp off center. Hes got tons of gear and doesn't mind using it, but sometimes it bothers me that he has to dress my channel.

I have struggled with a similar issue from time to time. My wireless unit would'nt get signal one night in this particular town we were in and I had to run cable for the evening. I discovered my wireless gain was actually hotter and clearer than my 2 elixr cables on either end of my PB?? I backed off the wireless gain a good bit and it seems to match better. I brought this discussion up in a previous thread.
I feel sometimes like I am pre-loading my effects. One of the first in the chain is my Tone Press compressor..for the setting I like...it pops audibly and the dist and od pedals after it don't act right either? Some nights its on and others off. I think the signal strength of the wireless has a great deal to do with sound..depending on the area your in.. I could be wrong?

[Ray K.]

Tom, thanks for the reply! You and I are pretty much on the same page it seems. Once I have my amp dialed in, I pretty much leave it there. If I do need to change, I make sure FOH knows about it so there are no surprises for them. I've been on both sides of the board over the years, so I have a respect for what they are up against. Such as "low lifes" that hold back during sound check... :rolleyes:

One thing I failed to mention. In our case, our Aviom monitor system is split from the console. Any changes made to the channel strip gain/trim affects what is happening in my ears (IEMs). We hope to remedy this in the future, but who knows when that will happen.

So, I try to make it easier on the SE/PM and the sound techs that help him out or sub for him when he's not there. I try not to have any of my gain pedal levels over approx. 3dB. I also only just discovered that kicking in one of my boost pedals for solos or over the top stuff was causing issues at FOH. It sounded great in my IEMs, but I didn't realize it was hitting the preamp that hard. So, now I know to stay off that pedal. Not much advantage if I boost my signal on stage and they have to adjust my level at the fader. I'd rather leave them some headroom to boost my level at the console end. It's not affecting my precious tone either way, so no real loss there.

I've been meaning to get together with my SE/PM and work out the levels of each individual pedal and in combination. (Sometime other than at rehearsal) To see what he's seeing at the console. He knows what he's doing, having 7 years of tour experience with one of the major CCM artist as their SE/PM. But, I'd like to be there with him as an extra pair of eyes/ears and so we're not having to yell at each other from stage to FOH.

Would like to hear from others on this subject.

Thanks,
Ray K.

[Ray K.]

Pietro, pretty much as long as I've been playing live events, I've set the level of my gain pedals with a slight boost. Or used boost pedals for solos or any other time I need to really drive. But, those were in the ole R&R band days where in most all cases I was the solo guitar player.

Since becoming a worship guitarist about 3+ years ago, I have a different situation and have to take a slightly different approach. I'm in the worship band, and there are times when we do songs on our own. The majority of the time we are playing with our orchestra (strings, woodwinds, brass), 80 - 100 voice choir and 4 - 6 praise team members (vocals). There is a lot of musical information coming through FOH!

Many times the primary issue is lack of communication. The guys running sound aren't as well versed about the songs. They haven't been given cues as to who should be more prominent in the mix or what instrument is solo, etc.

I do want to say that our sound team does a fantastic job and are very reliable and I'm grateful for them. I've become the unofficial "liaison" if no one else calls the audibles as they should.

Thanks,
Ray K.

[Ray K.]

Casper, I was just dealing with my SE about my guitar sounding too thin, etc. I'm trying to pull off the solo in "Today Is The Day" by Lincoln Brewster. I'm trying to stay authentic, so I'm using my single coil Classic. But I also had my HDT at the last rehearsal with splittable bridge humbucker. I changed guitars out while my SE listened to the full band mix. Wound up with the Classic, oh and my Tube Zone.

Anyway, yeah I am all wireless and really dislike when I have to go back to being wired when we play other places and it doesn't work out for whatever reason. I get exceptional sound quality from my wireless units, both guitar and IEM.

Oh and I always run DI using a Palmer PDI-09 with a separate load box - no cab on stage. If we play outdoors our other venues, I may have to use my combo amp for monitoring, but I still insist on running DI.

I know what you mean about "dressing" your channel. I try to work it out with my sound guys so there is very little EQ on my channel.

I run my compressor all the time, a modified Boss CS-3, but I have had a Tone Press. Good pedal! You ought to talk to Dave about the popping as that should not be happening. Could be the True Bypass and/or you may need to add a buffer or ?.

Thanks,
Ray K.