Pedal setup for Crowdster Plus Stereo/Mono?

[Gadgetguitar]

Looking for some ideas on running my Crowdster Plus for acoustic and electric setup.

I have used the BBE Acoustimax with Fishman AFX Reverb pedal. Switched to the Fishman Aura Spectrum DI with the Fishman AFX Reverb Pedal. Loved the sound of both, but prefer running (cough cough) my Boss GT-10 with compression, set on a full range preamp, EQ, and some reverb. I like the ease of switching to a drive setting (humbucking pickup). I run my GT-10 in manual mode (each pedal on/off).

I want to run in Stereo but enjoy my wireless setup to much. How is everyone else running the Crowdster Plus?

[Pietro]

I'm running mine stereo only in church. I even wrote an article on it here (http://pietrosquared.wordpress.com/two-voice-stereo-guitar-a-primer/).

I run most of my guitars stereo now (except my "true" acoustic.)

I find that all (not most, but all) wirelesses suck too much from the life of the guitar. I don't know why they work well for vocals but, imho, crappy for instruments, but I say... upgrade your tone, ditch the wireless.

I also bought a "better" stereo cable from lavacable. I noticed the difference immediately.

[homeontherange]

Sorry to ressurect an old thread, but what are the 'better' stereo cable brands folks are using? Just asking because I have a C+ on the way and need to figure out how to set up...


I also bought a "better" stereo cable from lavacable. I noticed the difference immediately.

(New C+ looks something like this...
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll278/homeontherange/05-22-08n2.jpg

[Pietro]

email lava. Even the cheaper one I got from him made a big difference.

[Shannon]

email lava. Even the cheaper one I got from him made a big difference.
+1 on the Lava cable..

and ALSO +1 on ditching the wireless... I've tried systems that claim NO loss of tone... spent way too much money only to find out that they were wrong..

I'm now "leashed" for good when playing my Crowdy.
ANd yeah, STEREO is the only way to go... unfortunately, you'll find yourself buying two rigs and constantly updating and upgrading them because you will just LOVE how the guitar sounds when running stereo through dedicated electric and acoustic rigs.

[c-dub]

I run mine direct into my Reverend Hellhound (2x 6L6) set clean. With a little compression I really like the acoustic sound I'm getting, and I get my dirt from pedals (Keeley modded TS9 and OCD). No hassle of running two outs, but I obviously probably could get a better acoustic sound if I used my mama bear direct into the PA for the acoustic side. Want to get an AER cube.

[Shannon]

I run mine direct into my Reverend Hellhound (2x 6L6) set clean. With a little compression I really like the acoustic sound I'm getting, and I get my dirt from pedals (Keeley modded TS9 and OCD). No hassle of running two outs, but I obviously probably could get a better acoustic sound if I used my mama bear direct into the PA for the acoustic side. Want to get an AER cube.


Actually, you'd get a better acoustic side directly into the pa through a STANDARD DI... Mama bear is ok for recording and playing around, but in order to have a good clean acoustic sound without having to fiddle with it.. I just run straight into my Genz Benz (for stage sound) and from that direct into the board.

Basically, use the Mama Bear when you don't want your crowdster to sound like a crowdster... but I've found that is never the case for me! I love the clean pure sound of the crowdy into my Benz with a little on board chorus/reverb from the Benz to richen it up a bit...

Of course, to each his own... as long as you're playing a TAG, you at least have the right idea!

[Pietro]

Been using a Yamaha AG Stomp for years, makes any piezo sound more like a miked acoustic. I think a good pre-amp is really important to get great acoustic tone, but the times I've had to plug acoustic directly into the PA it's sounded pretty cool.

[homeontherange]

Thanks for suggestions and council re setup and what you're using...

I was thinking I might start by running both channels into my duet/Mac/LogicStudio and out to try and determine what sounded good via similulation.


+1 on the Lava cable...

I looked on the Lava Cables site and one can pay from $35 (Gotham GAC4) to $200 (VoVox Link) for a 12' TRS to 2TS cable... I like quality stuff, but don't think I've ever paid more than 75 bucks for a cable... So what Lava quality are you using?

[Pietro]

I bought that cheapest Lava cable, thinking if I could hear the difference, I would buy another one later for a little more.

I haven't bought a second one yet, but I have to say that that cable made a difference.

[Gadgetguitar]

Since I got the thread going a few months back, I switched to the lava stereo cable. Ditched my Fishman Aura Spectrum and been using a SansAmp Para DI on the acoustic side. Driving the electric side with a Liverpool Sansamp, just dropped in a Hollywood bones pedal for some fun. Love the setup. But must say still like being able to walk around during practice.

[Shannon]

I Don't remember how much for sure, but I think my cable was around $50 or so. I did hear an appreciable difference between my lava cable and my $500 X2 digital wireless... therefore, the wireless got sold.

As far as the AG stomp... at one time I owned 3 of them... (one for Church, one for my studio and I happened to have an extra)...
I sold them all in short order to be honest... never was able to get an acceptable tone out of them... they just sounded too unnatural to me
Got the Mama Bear... haven't used it in nearly a YEAR... though there were some nice tones created with it... still just doesn't feel natural.

My "Benz" is my preamp if you will... and the tone coming from it, both on stage and through the mains is excellent...bright, clean and natural with plenty of low end... warmth, if you will... and I'm picky. So I don't see the point in wasting money and effort on other preamps at this point.

Now, for the electric side, I DO obviously see the point and it looks like I'm going to a G-system from my G major... and that, of course, will be in the effects loop of my PSA1 to maintain the proper signal path.

I almost never play JUST acoustic tones... there's always a little bit of electric going on in my mix... (generally down in the mix from the acoustic) but I've found that a tastefully effected CLEAN electric tone with some delay accompanying the TAG acoustic tone makes a world of difference.

[pipedwho]

I Don't remember how much for sure, but I think my cable was around $50 or so. I did hear an appreciable difference between my lava cable and my $500 X2 digital wireless... therefore, the wireless got sold.
Did you use the 'full bandwidth' connection on the X2? The output connector on the X2 XDS-Plus receiver unit is a TRS with a 'filtered' signal on the tip and a full range signal on the ring. If you use a standard guitar cable from the receiver you get the 'rolled' off electric guitar sound, if you make up a cable (or only push the jack into the first 'click') then you get the full bandwidth sound. This got me the first time I tried to use my XDS-Plus with an acoustic.

After I worked out the problem, I have not noticed any tonal change at all when using the XDS-Plus vs a decent cable with my acoustics.

Of course, you'd need two wireless units to individually amplify both pickups of the Crowdster+. That's the main reason I still use a cable on my dual source guitar.

[Shannon]

Did you use the 'full bandwidth' connection on the X2? The output connector on the X2 XDS-Plus receiver unit is a TRS with a 'filtered' signal on the tip and a full range signal on the ring. If you use a standard guitar cable from the receiver you get the 'rolled' off electric guitar sound, if you make up a cable (or only push the jack into the first 'click') then you get the full bandwidth sound. This got me the first time I tried to use my XDS-Plus with an acoustic.

After I worked out the problem, I have not noticed any tonal change at all when using the XDS-Plus vs a decent cable with my acoustics.

Of course, you'd need two wireless units to individually amplify both pickups of the Crowdster+. That's the main reason I still use a cable on my dual source guitar.

I had an XDR Rack unit...
And I used the balanced output (XLR) and also the full bandwidth config and I heard a very slight difference...
However, I'm kind of a tone hound, so I am probably more critical than most.

The BIGGER complaint that I had with the X2 was the horrifically short battery life in the transmitter.
I actually had two wireless units... one for each output and used a stereo splitter at the guitar jack...
THAT was another reason I chucked it all for a cord... WAY too much money wrapped up in less than perfect tone... and at the end of the day, I'd just as soon have a cable attached to me (well, sometimes) as the bulk of two transmitter packs strapped to my... um, strap.

I do miss the freedom on occasion, but since I am also the lead singer, I rarely get far enough from my mic stand to justify wireless in the first place!

[leftywells]

Hello everyone - new to the forum here! Actually found it while searching for info on this very topic. Hope you don't mind me reviving a month-old thread.

I'll throw in my 2 cents here - I tried out a Fishman Aura Spectrum - but just couldn't dial in a sound I liked as much as running it 'naked' straight into the board via a Radial DI. I did some digging and found a couple of 'quotes' supposedly from Fishman saying that they didn't recommend the Aura Spectrum to be used with chambered guitars like the Crowdster or Taylor T5s (unverified internet source so take with a grain of salt).

The best luck I've had in terms of achieving an acoustic sound I'm happy with is to run my acoustic side into a Tech 21 (Sansamp) Bronzewood 60 amp, using it as a preamp. So, essentially, it's like a having a Sansamp Para DI w/ the ability to add in a little compression and reverb.

It's just sometimes I'd rather not lug that 1x12" combo around, which is why I was trying out the Aura Spectrum. So, I'm still investigating other preamp stompboxes - has anyone tried out the BBE Acoustimax? My other thought is to just 'stick with what I know' and actually get a Sansamp Para DI...

Thanks for the tip on the lava cables, too, been looking for some good quality TRS cables...

[Pietro]

Acoustimax is awesome with a Crowdster. I have a buddy who has one and I tried my Crowdy with it one day. Sounded fantastic. That's a great product.

[Mystroe]

I think the crowster di'ed striat into a pa sounds awesome-- no eq moves on the guitar or board needed.--add a perfect reverb at the board and you're done----- that said, i like to create an acoustic "space" around the "acoustic guitar" so that you get the ambient elements that make a natural acoustic so natural--- a bit of early reflection plus a smidge of "slap back" and then a larger true reverb---- not much of any of the above, not enough to "hear an effect" going on. But smoothly implemented--- super real environment. ----I get it by first hitting a Radial Pre-z acoustic pre amp--- then putting a line 6 M-13 in the loop---- prossesor A) an "early refection or small room verb Prossesor B) left "off" but ready to go with a very mild chorus -gives a slite vol bump + a little comp. Prossesor C) A simple delay- kinda long slapback--very low feed back Prossesor D) a large verb ---- again not much of any of the above. I also set "wetter" values of each prossesor on the two additional presets above the low row which is the low key mode. Its very nice to be able to instantly access the "perfect" fx for those passages where they can make a difference------OK is this going overboard??? other than moving the large-ish pedal board around, i love it . did all my tweaks in 1 day--now i just play. (Level setting on m-13 is a little figitey--real low level blends) so--somebody did ask--- s

[leftywells]

here's a different angle on this topic that I'm curious if anyone has tried? The Line 6 POD X3 Live.

For those of you not familar with this latest POD - it provides for 2 inputs which can each be assigned to individual preamp/processing. So, in other words, you can send your acoustic signal into input 1 and have it processed with an acoustic preamp/model, have your electric input sent to input 2 processed however you'd like, and then the blended signal is output via XLR.
I even found it cool as I was reading up on the manual that you can assign the 2 inputs to the expression pedal and use it as a blend pedal - toe-down for acoustic-only, heel-down for electric-only, and then whatever blend you'd like between.

I'm not necessarily a POD guy - only toyed with them through the years occasionally, but I've been impressed with this latest one based on what i've heard some guys do with it at my church.

This is really coming from the perspective of a 'simple/compact/portable' solution. You show up with that floor unit, your stereo cable and send the board 1 XLR signal.

As my church has one, I'm going to be able to try it out soon and see for myself. Just curious if anyone's already tried this - especially curious about the acoustic tones you get from it?

[Pietro]

I did indeed try the POD X3Live when it first came out, and it handles this particular function very well. So does the Axe-FX I've heard, but I don't have the $$$$ for one of those right now. I ended up returning the X3Live for a few reasons.

1. The User Interface on it was HOPELESSLY difficult to use for me (and I am pretty savvy) and there was not yet any kind of Mac editor/librarian. There is now I believe. Seriously, I have a POD XT Pro and I think it's way easier to use. The X3Live has so much in it that it's... well... clunky...

2. It was too easy to get sounds that were amazing by themselves but sounded really bad with the rest of the band. Easier than any other similar product I've ever owned or tried. I can not tell you why this is the case. My US Masters strat has never sounded better through any amp or processor than it did through that X3Live.

3. My ToneLab SE and Yamaha AG Stomp that I had at the time (still have the AG Stomp) simply sounded better blended through a mixer (again... didn't have the time or gumption to futz with the controls during rehearsal).

If I could have futzed with it for a while, I no doubt would have come up with some great sounds on it, but alas, life is too short. I may try one of these again, because they are amazing.

btw... the "blend" function is not as worthwhile as you think. Easier to have two volume pedals, one for acoustic and one for electric. I've tried both ways. But then again, I'm also a guy who layers the two sounds a LOT!

[Pietro]

btw, Lefty... are you new? You do know we require a photo of your Anderson!

[Gadgetguitar]

I started this post a few months back. Since the first post I settled into the SansAmp Para DI with various pedals. Started running the acoustic stereo into the Sansamp directly on acoustic and using pedals Tech 21 Liverpool delay/chorus as my electric side. Did that for a few weeks, switched to running mono with the blend working very well. Still use my Para DI as the main pre, run into a Radial Hollywood pedal for my drive. Just roll the blend to humbucker kick on my Radial pedal. Very nice setup and simple connection.

But, just picked up a Pod X3 Live, never did like Line 6 all to well. Got it Saturday, loaded Lincoln Brewster patches from his website. After I loaded I noticed he has a Crowdster patch already setup 19-2. Played that patch Sunday morning and was very impressed. Very bright and clean sounded on the acoustic side. Did not get an electric patch yet, hope to do that this week. Can not say I will switch totally to the Line 6. We will see over time. Do want to note, you could run stereo with the Pod X3 Live and blend to one output. It does allow for 2 inputs to be run at the same time and can be independent sounds (Tone 1 and Tone 2). Going to play with this setup. Hate to run an amazing guitar through a box, but go with what sounds good that day.

[leftywells]

Cool feedback from all on this angle of the topic...I borrowed the church's X3 Live Saturday and sat down to play around with it on sunday (not in church setting - just at home).

Regarding Pietro's comments about the difficulty in getting around the X3 Live, I'm glad it wasn't just me. I had the manual out, the website up with their forum, and I was still struggling. And, like Pietro, I consider myself pretty technically-savvy, but I've not dabbled too much w/ the PODs before. But definitely WAY more complicated than getting around on my Fender Cybertwin, which to me (beyond being an actual amp) is functionally very similar to the PODs.

The stock/preset sounds did sound pretty impressive, but I was really trying to do the 2 tone/blend thing (humbucker pup --> gtr input --->tone 1 and acoustic pup---> aux input --->tone 2). I didn't have enough time to get it figured out but will play with it some more.

I'll have to check out those Lincoln Brewster patches, Gadgetguitar. For what it's worth, my favorite sound so far is still running thru my Sansamp Bronzewood amp (which is essentially their para-DI in amp combo form).

Here's my Crowdster Plus - I couldn't recall if I had posted before. At one time, I think it was the only lefty Crowdster Plus (emphasis on "Plus" as I think there's a lot of regular Crowdster lefties out there). TA (himself) told me at the time that to do the wiring was a lot more complicated than they anticipated, so build-time took longer and such. Not sure if they ever got that worked out or not, but at least then (spring 2008) I think it was the only one out there.

[tom]

that is the one and only lefty c+! because of the pcboard mounted blend control there is no easy way to reverse the taper so there won't be any more of those.

[leftywells]

I feel a Wayne's World moment coming on...

"I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!"

:D