Vintage Trem Advice

[Jimmy-Sekshun8]

Ok, I have been struggling here. I know I should have better luck than this, but I don't. My Drop Top with Vintage Trem will NOT stay in tune when I use the bar. I have put Tri Flow on the saddles, the nut and the string tree. I would like to avoid going back to a Floyd because I don't want that kind of stuff done to my Tommys. What really got to me was that I put Tri Flow on the nut, right on top of the string, and VIOLENTLY used the trem to try to work in the oil. I focused on the 6th string so as to not have to worry about the string tree. I had the guitar connected to the tuner and it stayed sharp. Anybody have any advice they can give me on keeping this in tune? I am having alot of luck, just all of it VERY bad. :( :( :(

[mslugano]

Sounds to me that you have issues with your nut. I would start by cleaning out each string groove VERY well, then maybe try your nut sauce IN TINY AMOUNTS to see if it works better. If it does not, I suspect your strings are getting piched in the nut and they need more room to breathe...nut files and delicate touch is needed here.

Also, I don't know what kind of tuners you are using but they can also be the source of trem tuning problems too if they are not working right or if you are stringing the guitar with too many wraps around the string post (though I suspect they are more likely to cause strings going flat rather than sharp).

I doubt it's the bridge.

[Jimmy-Sekshun8]

They are Gotoh locking tuners. No wraps. I can't imagine the guitar having cut issues being that it was installed at the Anderson factory. I'll give cleaning it out a shot however.

[tom]

i would start by making the trem as close to floating as possible. loosen the claw screws so that they just barely hold the bridge to the body. if you can play with the bridge floating, you could go just a bit further. stretching the strings out totally before you play is a must. tug on them and re tune keep doing it until they don't drop pitch when you tug on them. moving anything violently doesn't usually help anything.

[Jimmy-Sekshun8]

Hahaha, I think the term "violently" is rather subjective and certainly can imply a degree of anger or malice but this isn't the case here fortunately. Basically I meant that I was fairly vigorous in using the trem so as to get the oil worked into the junction of the nut and string. I did read your post where you set your bridges to where they just rest on the guitar for more smooth operation so I started there. However, I just can't get that blasted 6th string to stay in tune. So is your recommendation that I have it set so that I have the ability to pull it back so that the string goes back into pitch? Is there a way to overcome this issue I'm having without doing that or am I kind of in a "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch" situation. Either is fine with me. But if there's an option to not have to pull the bar back after using it I would certainly love to exercise it. Thanks for getting back to me Tom. YOU ARE THE BEST!!

[tom]

the G string is usually the one that causes the most trouble since it slacks the fastest and slides the farthest. is the low e stretched in real good? i've not had had any of those that wouldn't slide well given a little lube. how far are you detuning when pushing down on the arm? vintage trems have a limited range unless you're beck. notice how he holds the arm? he brings things back to where ever they need to be. he's always had the craziest technique with the arm.

[Jimmy-Sekshun8]

Master Anderson, putting me and Beck in the same conversation is an insult to Beck :) . Anyway, I was both doing a dive bomb and just a gradual wiggle and it would end up about 5 cents sharp. The strings are very well stretched as they've been on there a month. Would you recommend cleaning out the nut very well next string change and maybe mixing some graphite in with the Tri Flow?

[tom]

in my experience graphite tends to build up and cause trouble over time. i recently tried the big bends nut sauce, and it seems best of all. it stays around longer than the triflow and is easily as slippery. remind me what string gauge you're using.

[Jimmy-Sekshun8]

9 - 42. I'm not opposed to going to 10s if you think it would help. Nut Sauce? Never heard of it.

[mslugano]

They are Gotoh locking tuners. No wraps. I can't imagine the guitar having cut issues being that it was installed at the Anderson factory. I'll give cleaning it out a shot however.

Did you happen to increase string diameter from original spec?

I use the Nut Sauce stuff myself but EXTREMELY sparingly and clean it all out during each string change. I think it works pretty well.

[Jimmy-Sekshun8]

Actually, the opposite. I went from 10s to 9s.

[dannopelli]

Big Bends Nut Sauce

http://www.bigbends.com/

[mslugano]

Actually, the opposite. I went from 10s to 9s.

Hmm. Odd, I guess, but I am going with the nut as the culprit for some reason. It would be interesting to see what happened if you changed back to 10's. Maybe a funky set of strings (the 9's you installed)?

[markus]

... I would like to avoid going back to a Floyd because I don't want that kind of stuff done to my Tommys.

What in your opinion is wrong with Floyds on Andersons??? :confused: :mad:

[Jimmy-Sekshun8]

Well, the 9's I installed are Elixir. I dunno if they ever have a funky set but, who knows. There's nothing wrong with Floyds on a Tommy except that I didn't purchase it with a Floyd and I would rather get a root canal with no anesthetic than have someone come within 10 feet of my Tommy's with anything remotely resembling a router. I love Floyds to be honest but since they aren't capable of being put on a Cobra (which is my favorite guitar in the world) I need to get the vintage trem to stay in tune. So I'm open to ANY suggestions you fine people may have.

Tom, would you suggest I put 10's on the guitar since that's what was the original string??

[tom]

was it working better with .010's?

[John Price]

Is it only the E string?

I would try another string! Clean out the slot! clean it again! stretch out the string.... insert some nut sauce try a few smooth dives and retune.. stretch the string again & retune.....Check and see if your tremolo plate is flush with the body.... make sure your saddle is even, or at least both screws are resting on the plate....

[michaelomiya]

What in your opinion is wrong with Floyds on Andersons??? :confused: :mad:

:p :p :p +1!:D :D :D

[markus]

... I love Floyds to be honest...

Ok Jimmy... we're at peace again! ;)
So, if I may take the freedom and "read between the lines", I guess what you're really saying is that you'd love it if Cobras would be available with Floyds... :eek: Did I get that right?
See... that wasn't so difficult to admit, was it? :D :D :D Secretly we all love Floyds! :cool:

[Jimmy-Sekshun8]

Now Markus, don't go getting me in trouble with the supreme commander. If you do, I won't get my milk and cookies, and there's no fun in that. :) My love of Floyds is secondary to my love of the Cobra. It is the most amazing sounding guitar EVER IMHO. Tom, I can't say whether or not it worked better with 10's as it was restrung upon purchase. but if you feel that is a better approach I'll make the change. I'll also clean out the nut slot and get some Nut Sauce today as it's string change day. Thanks all of you for your input. Again, please, any advice you have in this matter please post it because I appreciate the assistance. I'm a Floyd guy so trying to keep the vintage in tune is new to me.

[markus]

Me getting anyone into trouble??? :eek: :eek: NEVER!!! :D :D
Anyway, good luck with the vintage trem, I'm sure you'll get it to work the way you want.

[Jimmy-Sekshun8]

:) :) Guys, thanks for your input. After further review, I have but one comment to make: NUT SAUCE IS THE ANSWER!!!! :) :)

[tom]

the sauce is THE SAUCE!

[Jimmy-Sekshun8]

Once again, the wise, all knowing SUPREME Commander of the Anderson Empire, has shown his wisdom, knowledge, and willingness to lead his people to the promised land of guitar perfection. Tom, imagine if you will, dive bombs, no floyd, no tuning problems. Now, this pipe dream is my Drop Top in reality.

[markus]

Nutsauce? I don't know... sounds like some glibbery mess to me! :eek: :D :D
I still like my Floyds better! :p

[Benny]

After too much solvent use in the nut I would recommend a new, properly cut nut. I've had many trem equipped guitars - even T/As that came in for a refret - benefit from a new Properly Cut nut. I emphasize 'properly cut' nut because I have seen more that are not. Another master luthier I know recommended I use Ivory soap in the slots (worked into the slot with a business card or dental floss), especially for bone nut as those 'sauces' will stain the material. Also check for burrs on the front side of the nut slot as they can be a cause of tuning problems. I have a trem user tuning sheet that I will email you if you like (no secrets, but an accumulation of techniques). I'll get a copy of it to Tom to see that he approves.

[Jimmy-Sekshun8]

After too much solvent use in the nut I would recommend a new, properly cut nut. I've had many trem equipped guitars - even T/As that came in for a refret - benefit from a new Properly Cut nut. I emphasize 'properly cut' nut because I have seen more that are not. Another master luthier I know recommended I use Ivory soap in the slots (worked into the slot with a business card or dental floss), especially for bone nut as those 'sauces' will stain the material. Also check for burrs on the front side of the nut slot as they can be a cause of tuning problems. I have a trem user tuning sheet that I will email you if you like (no secrets, but an accumulation of techniques). I'll get a copy of it to Tom to see that he approves.


Benny, you'll be happy to know that the guitar is only a couple of months old so I feel very confident that the nut is fine. There wasn't much "solvent" there so I lucked out there also. HOWEVER, that being said, if you're ok with it, send me a private message and I'll shoot you my email address. I'd love to see your worksheet. I'm always up for learning more. Thanks for your reply.

[bruce]

Big Bends Nut Sauce is clear, so it won't stain. It may add a "hue" to a bone nut, but that's because the sauce is getting in the pores of the bone. Sorta like when you leave a wet spot on a granite counter-top.

I personally highly recommend the Nut Sauce and have been using it everyday for over three years. Like Tom said, it's thicker and stays put so much better than Tri-flow. I've worked on so many guitars that had been drenched with Tri-Flow at the nut that the glue joint holding the nut was compromised and the wood was drinking it up. Nut Sauce works wonders on Gibson style headstocks with an angle. Ivory soap does work well too, but I found the Sauce more affective.

[tom]

what is this solvent you speak of benny?
nut sauce has fixed guitars i've tried everything else on and still had hangups.

[Benny]

I am thinking of the Tri-Flow and - believe it or not - WD40 residue. Honestly, Bruce gave me some Nut Sauce and I have been wary of using it because of the above concerns. I also don't like the staining thing that he just wrote about: I'm afraid to stain. And, it's hard to re-glue a nut to an oil soaked nut slot. I'll open that "Sauce" tube and check it out...

[dannopelli]

I have been using Nut Sauce on all my guitars since 2003. I don't have any staining issues, no issues at all really. Have not change a nut. My guitars are maintained by the most reputable tech in the Central VA area. Yep I go there or ship them there for service. If I needed a nut change he'd tell me.

Nut Sauce is not like the other stuff. Can't explain it, but it is just not.

[bruce]

I am thinking of the Tri-Flow and - believe it or not - WD40 residue. Honestly, Bruce gave me some Nut Sauce and I have been wary of using it because of the above concerns. I also don't like the staining thing that he just wrote about: I'm afraid to stain. And, it's hard to re-glue a nut to an oil soaked nut slot. I'll open that "Sauce" tube and check it out...

Just use it... you'll be glad.. A must for your Swing/Beebop/Rockabilly (whatever the **** you guys call it) client's guitars.

[mslugano]

I have been using Nut Sauce on all my guitars since 2003. I don't have any staining issues, no issues at all really. Have not change a nut. My guitars are maintained by the most reputable tech in the Central VA area. Yep I go there or ship them there for service. If I needed a nut change he'd tell me.

Nut Sauce is not like the other stuff. Can't explain it, but it is just not.

Heartily concur. Been using it for 4-5 years. No stains...no nut issues...just works.

I should reiterate as in my first post, I use it VERY sparingly (like a drop about the size of a pinhead in each groove and at the bridge occassionally) and I clean out each slot at every string change with a business card. I also slide some under my string retainer on the headstock on my string retainer equipped guitars...keeps the strings from hanging up there, too.

[Benny]

I'm a trem guy - just ask Tom, and even using my very special Cobra-S, or Trans-Plum Sparkle oversize S Classic (sorry all, I snuck that one in) I've not used anything but Ivory in the string slots. I use the trem to set the tuning and I get back in tune - as needed - by hitting the bar. Trust me, I deal with tuning issues on a daily basis in my shop and out in the field and they all require different approaches to the string/nut friction issue. Thanks for the "Sauce" advice and I will add it to my list of possible solutions.

[markus]

Oversize S Classic??? :eek:

[tom]

benny, the sauce has eliminated my need for "hitting the bar". just try it.

[tom]

everyone please look at the pen like item i am holding in my hand, excuse me while i put on my sunglasses, and ignore the flash of light coming from it.

[bruce]

everyone please look at the pen like item i am holding in my hand, excuse me while i put on my sunglasses, and ignore the flash of light coming from it.

What the..??

[mslugano]

What the..??

MIB...there is, never has been, and never will be an oversized S Classic.

...wow, can that really be done?!! Consider me in line.

[tom]

bru, response to benny's last post.
mslugano, read the post again, apparently it did not work.

[mslugano]

bru, response to benny's last post.
mslugano, read the post again, apparently it did not work.

OK. Will do...

...

...I hear nothing...I see nothing...

[tom]

there you go.

[ConnemaraGuitar]

This may be a good opportunity to bring back the topic of Synthetic Bull Seal Tusq, an incredible product that needs no "sauce." Nuts made of this material have no equal!

The Supreme Commander has kept this technology to himself since befriending a herd of Synthetic Bull Seals who make their home on the upper end of the Susquehanna river, near Harrisburg, PA. (This is also right next to Three Mile Island, which some of our older members will remember as a fine place NOT to visit!)

Me, I slipped on my special sunglasses immediately before the Supreme Commander pushed the button on his little pen thingy. I'm not totally stupid, ya'know!!

But that's another story...

[tom]

sounds like it might be cocktail hour where you are lofton?

[mdrs]

Testing, one, two, three, testing, testing...............

[dannopelli]

No Lofton just has a good memory...

Post from 2008. My fault I started it.. We were getting silly while Tom was on Vaca.

Check post 10:

http://andersonforum.com/board/showthread.php?t=5469&highlight=synthetic+bull

[markus]

Man... and I thought I was weird... I had noooo idea!!! :eek: :D :D

[Benny]

there you go.
Is this the part where I go to work for a lonely Post Office in the Midwest until you need me again?

[Benny]

benny, the sauce has eliminated my need for "hitting the bar". just try it.
Okay, could you please pass "the sauce?"

[dannopelli]

Is this the part where I go to work for a lonely Post Office in the Midwest until you need me again?
Actually Cape Cod, but we have an office in Lubbock too.