VA7 vs VA5..........here we go.......

[GASMAN]

Anyone had the chance to compare?

Just looking at the new pickup page on the website. One description of the VA7 says "less rattle than the VA5". What does that mean?

By the way-----nice job on the new pickup page.

[tom]

on a 12" radius, the "vintage stagger" is so exaggerated that the G and D poles are deadly close to the strings making them pull more on those strings. this translates into what sounds like fret rattle. john price here can chime in as he has had both.

[dannopelli]

Yeah, but the VA5's really do sound quite close to real vintage stagger PUPS. That "rattle", or adjusting the pups so that it is diminished, is a feature of the tone of the PUP.

I can tell you that since getting a Classic with VA 5's I really do not need to pull out a Strat to get those tones anymore.

So I guess my point is, isn't there both a positive and negative aspect to them?

[tom]

ah, but you haven't heard the va7 yet. just teasing, kind of. there aren't many absolutes when you start talking about tone. if logic can be followed, the milder stagger on the flatter neck should sound more like the tall stagger on the round neck. of course that is "should", which doesn't always hold true. i personally struggle with the string pull on vintage pickups, and the new ones make that work better for me. that doesn't mean the same is true for all. i can't tell you how many calls we have gotten about rattly G strings on Va loaded guitars form people who don't have experience with that style of pickup. we will probably continue to make both.

[dannopelli]

Its funny but I really do not have that issue. I have VA5's in one and VA2 VA2R and VA3 in another.

[tom]

you've also been playing strats for a long time and have learned how to make them work. i mean that as a compliment. i tried for years to make them work for me and never got there. you would certainly notice the difference between the 5's and 7's, one would probably suit you better and it could very well be the 5's. your previous comment about the 5's doing the strat sound for you makes me smile.

[dannopelli]

I got to tell you those two guitars REALLY nail it for me.

But once I get a new job I'll be calling Roy about a CT...

[tom]

you know we'll be happy to build you one when you're ready.

[mdrs]

I'm not understanding what the rattle actually is? Is the rattle audible? Is it a sound like a baby's rattle?

I understand the pull of the pu's magnet being close to the string, and how that would deaden the vibrating string. I'm just not sure what you mean by rattle, Tom.

I've played Strats for a long time, both old and new, as well as several sets of good Strat replacement pu's, and I don't think I've experienced "rattle". Maybe I did, and didn't realize it??

My latest Andy is a Classic with the V5's. And, it's tone is most certainly right in the ballpark with the finest Strat pu's I've played. I really love it's tone.

[tom]

the "too much" magnet field messes with the string vibration giving weird elongated excursion making it sound like fret rattle. most people, or people who have played strats a long time just figure it's part of the tone. people not accustomed to it think there is something wrong with the guitar.
not trying to cause a stir here or make people go looking for a problem.

[mdrs]

the "too much" magnet field messes with the string vibration giving weird elongated excursion making it sound like fret rattle. most people, or people who have played strats a long time just figure it's part of the tone. people not accustomed to it think there is something wrong with the guitar.
not trying to cause a stir here or make people go looking for a problem.

I know Tom. Not to worry.

I just never heard of the "rattle" before. What's the best way for me to hear it? Play a fretted string and hold it? Play an open string??

I think this is interesting...........love learning something new.

[tom]

i wouldn't go looking for trouble. if you adjust the pickups high it shows worse.

[Rob C.]

I had an Alder Classic a few years ago loaded with VA12's that I loved the tone on. I pretty much left it on the 2's. The only thing that killed me was the in balance between the string response. In particular the overly loud G and quiet B strings.

How would you compare the tonal difference between the VA2 and the new VA7?

Also, I assume the flatter pole pieces would help to minimize the difference in string response I noticed before?

Thanks for the info, Rob

[tom]

yes tha balance is better, and to me they are just a little fuller in the middle. the VA7+ would be the equiv of the VA2.

[dannopelli]

You just really got to dial in the height. It takes a while.

You know it's kind of like you have to fight/work to get good tones from a Strat, compared to a LP or something similar. And I love that! The satisfaction quotient is huge.

The difference for me with my Andersons is I still get the fight, but I am not fighting the neck or the intonation or the quality. It's like deep sea fishing with pro gear vs something lesser. You still have to work for the symbiosis between fingers - amp - guitar. But the guitar is now fighting with you and not against you. Same with the T classics with TV's.

Or at least that is my $.02...

[tom]

nicely said.
i tend to have the action a bit higher than our normal on my personal guitars, gives just a bit of fight and i can hit the guitar harder.

[Thoth105]

You guys are nuts. I like the guitar to get out of my way when I'm playing. That's why I play Andersons -- because they do (If you want to set 'em up that way, evidently)...

The cover band I'm in has decided to play a couple of stratty songs - Slow Dancing in a Burning room, for instance. I plugged in my VA5 equipped Classic, turned the tone down a smidge, selector to notch 2. Bingo. Maybe there was the rattle, but the tone I was looking for was there. Is "rattle" more pronounced on heavier strings? I use 10's (lowish action, low rise frets), so maybe you don't hear it until you go up to 11's. OR is it more pronounced with light strings ?

[tom]

the rattle is worse with smaller strings and pickups adjusted high. i always adjust the pickups to a place where it is minimized when i check them. if any of you are trying to find a problem that isn't a problem for you, stop it:D
i didn't mean that i want my guitar to be hard to play, but in a live situation i'm more pumped up than sitting in my room so i want to be able to dig in harder. i once told a story about working on some of pete towsends guitars, where i was all proud of myself for setting it up with the big strings it came in with only to find out that those were the lighter practice strings he used when not on stage.

[Thoth105]

the rattle is worse with smaller strings and pickups adjusted high. i always adjust the pickups to a place where it is minimized when i check them. if any of you are trying to find a problem that isn't a problem for you, stop it:D
i didn't mean that i want my guitar to be hard to play, but in a live situation i'm more pumped up than sitting in my room so i want to be able to dig in harder. i once told a story about working on some of pete towsends guitars, where i was all proud of myself for setting it up with the big strings it came in with only to find out that those were the lighter practice strings he used when not on stage.

Well, my Classic is set up the way it was born, so, if you did it, great job!

Edit = I meant to add - I've never tried that bigger string live thing. I wonder if I should give it a shot? Too chicken probably. Paul Gilbert used to go the other way - he'd put something ridiculous like 12's on it, and move down to, uh, 11's when he went on tour.

[dannopelli]

You guys are nuts. I like the guitar to get out of my way when I'm playing. That's why I play Andersons -- because they do (If you want to set 'em up that way, evidently)...

The cover band I'm in has decided to play a couple of stratty songs - Slow Dancing in a Burning room, for instance. I plugged in my VA5 equipped Classic, turned the tone down a smidge, selector to notch 2. Bingo. Maybe there was the rattle, but the tone I was looking for was there. Is "rattle" more pronounced on heavier strings? I use 10's (lowish action, low rise frets), so maybe you don't hear it until you go up to 11's. OR is it more pronounced with light strings ?

That really is the point I was making. You are not fighting the guitar. I think we are saying exactly the same thing! Cool huh!

But think about it. Strat tones are inherently a bit thinner, don't really sustain as long, have a different kind of string to string balance, etc, than say a LP or similar guitar. Plug my LP into my Maz 18/Maz 38 stage rig, step on the ZenDrive or Mosferatu and bingo I am in gunslinger heaven without trying. Same with my M equipped Cobra or my PRS Singlecut. It just sings. Even if I am playing clean Jazzy parts. The tones are big and full.

Guitars with Strat tones are not as big sounding. And actual vintage or vintage type Strats take more work. My playing has to be a bit sharper because the guitar is not just singing. Plus I have got to fight the playability of the 7.25 radius, necks that sometimes wobble around, saddles that can move easily when I change strings, the inherent noise of singles, etc. I have to set the action higher just a bit because I kind of dig down and then up to bend strings. I fight the guitar.

But I got my first Strat at 13. I kept it for nearly 30 years. And for the most part I have had a Strat as my main guitar since 13.

Until I got my hands on an Anderson Classic

My Anderson Classics gives me that "Strat" sound, but I don't fight guitar. I can keep the action lower cause I can bend easy and chord easy. The quality is consistent. I don't have to pop the neck back from time to time. Etc...

My favorites of my six Strats is my Sonic Blue NOS CS 60's, and my 3SB NOS 60's. I had a chance once to side by side them with a mint condition 62 Strat through a Fender Twin and a Marshall Plexi. It was scary how much the new guitars sounded like that 62.

My Classic with the VA5's sounds almost exactly like those two guitars. My Classic with the VA2VA2RVA3 gives me a very slightly more modern but still vintagy Strat sound. But I don't fight the guitar.

I like to fight for the tone. It makes me work harder, thus the "satisfaction" payoff. Kind of like building your own deck or something. When I want "MONSTER" guitar tones I pull out a Cobra or LP or PRS or something. That is why I will get an Atom CT for my next Guitar. I can get the MONSTER lead guitar sounds on a super playable instrument.

Not sure if this explains it. Maybe I just like those sounds or something. I know guys that swear by LP's and can't stand Strat tones and vice versa. And don't forget the Tele and Grestch guys! Talk about working for it!

I like it all, and use all regularly. But if I were going to audition for a gig, or do a blues jam, or something like that, I have my Classic with the VA5's in the bag. I used to carry my blue Strat.

Again, just my $.02

[mdrs]

the rattle is worse with smaller strings and pickups adjusted high. i always adjust the pickups to a place where it is minimized when i check them. if any of you are trying to find a problem that isn't a problem for you, stop it:D
i didn't mean that i want my guitar to be hard to play, but in a live situation i'm more pumped up than sitting in my room so i want to be able to dig in harder. i once told a story about working on some of pete towsends guitars, where i was all proud of myself for setting it up with the big strings it came in with only to find out that those were the lighter practice strings he used when not on stage.

Well, I'll confess..........Pete's been my "hero" since I was in Jr. High!! Nobody like him..........lyrics, brilliant ideas, great songs, killer player, amazing tone meister, and a decent live presence!! :D Frankly, with Pete's lifelong quest for a "clean, clear, distortion", I'm really surprised that he's not using Andersons. I'd put money on the fact that Pete's tone playing a CT would be "Townshend Heaven".

Hey Pete.............you listening???

I actually prefer the feel of a guitar that plays back at me. Guitars that are too easy to play just don't do it, for me anyhow. I've found that a guitar that you have to dig in to play, can reward you with some wonderful tone coming back at you. If I'm playing a lot, I'll use 11's. Typically, I'm using at least 10's, and hitting them so that they know I'm there...........

I've never played an Anderson that felt "too easy to play". They have the best necks and frets. And, IMO they are the ferrari of guitardom. But, they give you great "playback"...........a great balance of great playability yet great feel and responsiveness.

[dannopelli]

I've never played an Anderson that felt "too easy to play". They have the best necks and frets. And, IMO they are the ferrari of guitardom. But, they give you great "playback"...........a great balance of great playability yet great feel and responsiveness.

Yeah that's what I was trying to say!

[John Price]

Just got back in from Georgia! I will comment when I get a chance......

[John Price]

For me they sound a little bigger, opened and feel loose. I'm getting this real big piano like bottom and the strings feel like they vibrate a bit more than my other one with VA5's.... And that could also be just how the wood/guitar reacts as a whole but both guitars have the same specs: Ash body/maple neck. Is it a night and day reaction no and I don't think TAG was looking to accomplish that but I will say that this guitar is giving me the best vintage vibe that I've ever experienced from any single coil guitar that I've owned/played over the years. Another cool thing for me is tuning the B and G strings! Before the 7's the B&G strings were very sensitive and hard to dial in using SS tuner but now they both hold steady just like all the rest of the strings.........I'm sure it has to do with the magnetic pull and now with this radius on the pickups I seem to have no problems.

Sounds like they have less mids as well! Great for all you ash lovers............

[kurt1981]

Man Tom, you're killing me!!!!! Every time I think I'm happy with my andersons the way they are, you guys come up with something else to try. I'd be very interested in the va7's, I've had issues with the warbl and buzz thing for years, but just figured it was part of the strat life. What will the price be on these, and are they a drop in for earlier model VA's like the 1's and 2's?
Thanks Tom and crew,
Kurt

[tom]

they are drop in, fit the same covers. 100 retail dealers discount of course.