Ash for high gain?

[mylastword]

Hi guys
My first TAG hollow T has a maple top on alder body with a rosewood fretbroad, the sound is very versatile. The clean and overdrive sound is awesome. But when I played with the high gain amp, I felt a kind of lack of "strength" with h2+ PU but it is still good enough. Some one recommend me a ash body and maple neck for a little more "strength", I wondering what is sound alike with ash body+maple neck+ maple fretbroad and a high output PU(mb H2+ or H3??). Anyone has this a guitar with this configuration? Thanks

[dannopelli]

Hi guys
My first TAG hollow T has a maple top on alder body with a rosewood fretbroad, the sound is very versatile. The clean and overdrive sound is awesome. But when I played with the high gain amp, I felt a kind of lack of "strength" with h2+ PU but it is still good enough. Some one recommend me a ash body and maple neck for a little more "strength", I wondering what is sound alike with ash body+maple neck+ maple fretbroad and a high output PU(mb H2+ or H3??). Anyone has this a guitar with this configuration? Thanks

Never had that PUP configuration. But Ash/Maple will likely be a bright sounding guitar. Might want to go hollow Ash, Primavera, or Ash with a Rosewood fretboard.

[pipedwho]

For more 'balls', you could try moving the H2+ closer to the strings.

[killerburst]

In my experience the most consistent difference between alder and ash is an increased midrange content with alder, or a "scoop" in the mids with ash, depending on how you look at it. Maple is a very mid-oriented fingerboard wood, so combining maple with ash brings back some of the mid punch and focus that ash is typically missing. Rosewood is not a mid-heavy fingerboard wood, but it has nice round lows and very high highs (sparkle), without much mid "cut" or articulation. I think ash and maple make a more even-toned match for distortion tones. Actually alder and maple would probably have an even more focused and articulate fundamental tone. Hollow chambers have even less midrange content then their solid body counterparts, so they are not the best choice for distorted tones.

Just a thought- You may even prefer an H2, as sometimes high-output pickups in a high-gain amp just mush out and you lose control over the dynamics, which can be frustrating if your trying to get the amp to react to your attack and its already in maximum overdrive mode. You get nothing out of it.

YMMV, and all that.

[SonicGator]

How about a Basswood Body/Maple Top/Maple Neck? That has always been one of my favorite combinations that gives a full sound while retaining clarity.

[Road King]

My TAG is a hollow drop top T swamp ash with a quilted maple top, maple neck with a rosewood fingerboard. H2+ in the bridge and H1 in the neck position. 5 way switching with spliters. It has it's own personality of tones so to speak and I consider it a Godsend in that capacity. In other words it doesn't really sound like anything else. Through the clean channel of a Mesa Rectoverb, a Carl Martin comp, and an RC booster with gain at 9 o'clock, it sounds kind of like a fat mutant Telestratish funken axe, biting at the bridge and creamy with the neck pu split. Add in an LTD on low gain and OMG it is a cool blues tone. Add a vibe and get a Trowhendrix mutant tone. But different. Crunch tones either with an AC booster or dimed LTD have chord clarity and tons of bite, but midrange is needed for perfection IMO. With a BB preamp it is awesome as high gain (or at least what I consider high gain) instrument, still retains some clarity. Stack them all or add the Mesa gain channel and there is controllable feedback at low volumes and a cutting metalish solo tone. What it is not is warm in a Les Paul kind of way. With an EQ and selection of pedals it can do alot of things well and I would recommend it to anyone with the exception of one thing. I would change the bridge pu to a H2. I have the H2+ backed off pretty far and it is still a tad too hot for me. Hope this helps. Let me know if there are any specific questions i could answer for you. It looks like my TAG is almost exactly what you were considering.

[mylastword]

Thanks guys for good advice.
My first guitar is a cheap mex fender with a ash body(definitely not swap ash ) and rosswood fretbroard. Yes, like killerburst said, I feel this wood combination lacks mid range and distortion sound is not good(too sparkle, have to cut high eq on amp) and the bottom is little bit mud.. But I do know the huge different between a TAG and a fender, so even with similar configuration I am pretty sure that Road King's TAG will sound a lot better than my cheap fender. Also I have a basswood wolfgang so I did't consider basswood. I think maple neck+maple fretboard on a ash body or maple neck+maple fretboard on chambered alder body may have the sound I want to play with bridge PU. Need to find some clips and video of similar configuration to prove my idea. I remember that Jeff Young(former megadeth lead guitar) has a killer TGA with maple neck and fretboard, but not sure about the body wood.

[Janine Doubly]

I would be willing to bet the reason the ash body/maple neck idea gets bandied around so much is due to that combination's use and association with Eddie Van Halen's frankenstein guitar. Eddie has told the story a ton about getting either a Mighty Mite or Charvel ash strat body in the 70's for $50.00 bucks and doing his thing to it. So it stands to reason that that wood combination would make for a dynamite high gain tone. However, I would guess the ash body Eddie picked out in the 70's was probably NOT swamp ash which is what the "scooped mid" description of ash is usually associated with nowadays. I don't think any of us would ever describe Eddie's early tone to be "scooped" in the mids!!!:D

Now, the swamp ash/maple neck combo is a WONDERFUL tone, but I wouldn't associate it for a high gain tone, unless you wanted a scooped out mid to start with, but articulation would probably be sacrificed. I would tend to lean towards a maple top/basswood body/maple neck combo (like EVH went with for the Music Man guitar) or simply doing a maple neck on the alder/maple top guitar you currently have. Maple necks tend to add a nice "solidity" to the tone as compared to a combination's rosewood fingerboard counterpart.

[tom]

i've worked on that guitar, and it's not light by a long shot. it was a schecter made, charvel sold body from the days when schecter, charvel and boogie bodies tried an alliance with ISA as the selling agent. didn't work out for very long. the thing i remember most about that guitar is that the humbucker was crazy weak and very bright sounding. it didn't even read on an ohm meter which always made me suspect he may have tucked a capacitor in there to keep his sound secret. you really had to wind up the amp to make it do what he gets out of it.

[Janine Doubly]

Boogie Bodies...that was it!! So, Tom does this make you want to start offering 10 pound slabs of hard ash for bodies, now?!?!:eek:

[mylastword]

Eventually, what I need is just get a maple neck for my heavy ash Mexican fender and dig a hole for bridge H2+ PU!!??:eek: :eek:

[tom]

that heavy ash wouldn't be hard to find. i'd have to start working out to lift them though.

[michaelomiya]

Hi guys
My first TAG hollow T has a maple top on alder body with a rosewood fretbroad, the sound is very versatile. The clean and overdrive sound is awesome. But when I played with the high gain amp, I felt a kind of lack of "strength" with h2+ PU but it is still good enough. Some one recommend me a ash body and maple neck for a little more "strength", I wondering what is sound alike with ash body+maple neck+ maple fretbroad and a high output PU(mb H2+ or H3??). Anyone has this a guitar with this configuration? Thanks

MLW, I've got a 1 piece swamp ash body (thanks Jessie!) with a H2+ in the bridge, a floyd rose bridge, and a maple neck (no vintage tint:cool: ). My amps of choice (currently) are the Diezel Herbert, VH4 and the 5152/5153.

Tone-wise, the swamp ash body is 'scooped' - no 2 ways about it.

IMHO, the emphasis on the highs and/or lows really depend on how hard you hit the strings (SRV or Yngwie). My pick attack is light. As such, the swamp ash body, H2+ and a HI-gain head = a receipe for mud. The KERRANG and tight THUMP that many of us seek when playing a 100W'er doesn't come through with a swamp ash body IMHO. What does result is a Hi-mid emphasis that comes through too bright in many cases, only reinforced by too many watts.

What I end up doing is re-EQ'ing the head (do this anyway at higher volumes) but the post EQ controls get turned WAAAY down and the treb and bass typically pulled below 10 o'clock.

Cabs (front or rear loaded, and baffle thickness) and speakers (G12M's vs Greenbacks vs V30s vs T75's vs T100 - my favorite right now) are all going to emphasize or diminish the attributes listed above.

I marry my Diezels with a front-loaded (stiffer) 412 with Celestion G12-T100's. With those speakers and a less forgiving cab, the low's of the swamp ash are tightened up (slightly).

[LearnedHand]

i've worked on that guitar, the thing i remember most about that guitar is that the humbucker was crazy weak and very bright sounding. it didn't even read on an ohm meter which always made me suspect he may have tucked a capacitor in there to keep his sound secret. you really had to wind up the amp to make it do what he gets out of it.

This "confirms" what I have heard about the EVH sound, a weak humbucker and a Marshall amp cranked to 10.

[tom]

don't forget the voltage turned down to the amp.

[LearnedHand]

don't forget the voltage turned down to the amp.

The bottomline is; it is the man and his fingers that make the sound :) not the equipment :)

[michaelomiya]

don't forget the voltage turned down to the amp.

on all of our vintage Marshalls, a VARIAC is a MUST. 105-110V will save PT life while adding "sag" to the tone.

[tom]

yes, but we can't have his hands so we must make due with our own. ripley said ed would turn the variac down just until the pilot light went off.

[Dave K]

i've worked on that guitar, and it's not light by a long shot.

Don't tell me the $25k replica isn't accurate? :eek:
The one I checked out was fairly light. Didn't measure the scale to see if the bridge was in the wrong place. ;)

[mylastword]

Don't tell me the $25k replica isn't accurate? :eek:
The one I checked out was fairly light. Didn't measure the scale to see if the bridge was in the wrong place. ;)


That sounds the replica's body is not heavy ash:confused:

[Rupe]

The "Frankies" must have been inconsistent then...the one that I played was a boat anchor.

[Dave K]

I guess complete accuracy wasn't the goal? $$$$$$ ;)
I'd rather have five nice TAGs and a memorable vacation.

[Road King]

Amen and Amen

[Mister T]

on all of our vintage Marshalls, a VARIAC is a MUST. 105-110V will save PT life while adding "sag" to the tone.

For those of you that arent convinced by the EVH and Peavey amps but want a great early VH tone...try the Mesa Stiletto Deuce.

Spongy mode with tube rectification, using the tite gain setting. It was funny because in the store we were sitting around with other EVH, Marshalls, Soldanos and Peavey 5150 amplifiers...the Stiletto nailed it.

Tried an Stiletto ACE head and it didnt get the right low end...must be a transformer thing.

[Rupe]

I had a Stiletto Deuce for a while and I agree...I was able to nail Ed's "Unchained" tone. A great amp for sure...I sometimes wish that I had kept it.

[Janine Doubly]

A strange way I've been able to get a killer early VH tone is with an Anderson Drop Top (maple top, mahogany back) with an H2+ into a Keeley DS-1 Ultra Mod straight into a clean Dr. Z Route 66 and plugged into either a Z Best 2 x 12" or a Bogner cube. For some reason it nails that slightly buzzy, slightly sagging, but dynamic and touch sensitive tone from VH I and II. Plus, the Drop Top's vintage trem added a bit of that trem block "spring reverb" tone that I love about the early VH tone. Purists may scoff at it, but its nice to get that vibe from a rig that won't take your head off.

[Barry]

I had a Stiletto Deuce for a while and I agree...I was able to nail Ed's "Unchained" tone. A great amp for sure...I sometimes wish that I had kept it.
I have a Deuce . I agree , its an awesome amp .

[bruce]

Hi guys
My first TAG hollow T has a maple top on alder body with a rosewood fretbroad, the sound is very versatile. The clean and overdrive sound is awesome. But when I played with the high gain amp, I felt a kind of lack of "strength" with h2+ PU but it is still good enough. Some one recommend me a ash body and maple neck for a little more "strength", I wondering what is sound alike with ash body+maple neck+ maple fretbroad and a high output PU(mb H2+ or H3??). Anyone has this a guitar with this configuration? Thanks

One REALLY important ingredient here is the hollow body you are talking about. A solid body will yield a stronger, punchier attack, and a bigger bottom compared to the hollow... no matter what wood species you choose. My personal recommendation would be solid Alder. Swamp-Ash's middle is pretty scooped and you are left with highs and lows.

[SonicGator]

Bruce, I'm curious about the Swamp Ash with a Maple top. The Tone Reference section says it is similar to a Basswood/Maple combo and I've seen the same description elsewhere. Do you find that to be true with both clean and gain tones?

[Pietro]

Original question: Ash? High Gain? I've never been able to stand it. Mahogany, Basswood, or even Alder, yeah. But Ash? No way.

But take it with a grain of salt, I'm not even a big fan of a maple top with high gain. My favorite is solid basswood or solid mahogany (in the case of my PRS Standard 24).

Also, I'm really tired of high gain anyway. But when I wasn't, I hated my ash guitars with it.