What's the recipe for the sweet in-between sound for two-pickup guitars?

[Rhys]

What are some rules of thumb for getting the sweetest combo sounds? I'm talking neck and bridge, not in-betweens on 3-pickup guitars. I hate to use subjective tone words, but I'm thinking jangly, trebly, woody, articulate with nice overtones sounds.

I'm asking because I'm puzzled. Does this happen more when the pickups are both hotter, or more closely matched, or a hotter bridge than neck, etc?

Consider these cases in point:
-my old atom with H1-/H02 had a wonderfully sparkly in between sound.
-my new atom with M1/H2 is okay but much less so than the old.
-my fender jazzmaster has a lovely in between sound with stock pickups.
-my anderson classic with VA 12/23 has a pretty good in between sound, especially when lifted
-i had a vinetto with a mini-humbucker neck and a hot noiseless bridge and it had a great in-between sound.

I've tried to deduce some rules of thumb from these observations, but haven't come up with much--you guys got anything?

[tom]

had an interesting weekend playing two as close to identical guitars as possible except one had an m1 in the neck and the other had a new humbucker in the neck. both had a new humbucker in the bridge. i found myself loving the twin humbucker combination a lot. here is some background on what happens. when 2 pickups are on in parallel, the one with the lower impedance will predominate. in other words, if the bridge pickup is really hot and the neck pickup is really weak, the combination will sound "more like" the neck pickup. i have seen mismatches that are so far apart that the middle position almost sounds the same as the neck pickup alone.
the problem is that if we use the same pickup in both positions, one will probably suffer by itself. in an old les paul where both are the same, it's hard to get the neck and bridge both sounding their best with the same amp settings. so we compensate by making bridge pickups a bit hotter to try to balance the set.
for me this weekend, while i loved the combination of similar to HO1 and HO2, i missed the by itself sound of the M1. what to do? perhaps adapting to a weaker bridge humbucker is easier than adapting to a hotter neck pickup.
i'll be curious to hear what you hotter bridge pickup guys think.

[John Price]

I've always liked a hotter neck pickup.

[tom]

john, do you mean a hotter wound pickup, or the same pickup that just sounds hotter because it's in the neck position?

[ckofahl]

On the twin humbucker guitars that I have, I seem to like the output of the bridge pickup to be a bit hotter. I could be wrong, but it seems like the string vibration over the neck pickup is greater so a neck pickup with lesser output would be closer to a bridge pickup with slightly more output. This understanding may be wrong, but I seldom use an in-between sound on twin humbucking guitars, mostly neck or bridge. I might have to start using the inbetween setting get more familiar with it's tonal possibilities

[tom]

you are correct, the extra string vibration makes the neck pickup louder. you need to play with that middle position, it's a goodun'.

[John Price]

john, do you mean a hotter wound pickup, or the same pickup that just sounds hotter because it's in the neck position?


I like it to be hotter output wise. but just by a tad!......If having two pickups of the same output results in a hotter neck position I'm OK with that! just as long as I get the feel of greater output. I've purchased guitars with pickups designed for both positions (neck/Bridge) and most of the time I would replace the neck with something hotter output wise! Not sure why but It gives me more sustain under my fingers.....
thats just my liking!

With that said I'm not one to go for a very hot output pickup but it does have to equal out for me. Over the past year I've become a big single coil fan particularly the V5's and I've expressed my feelings about them on a previous post. not sure what the output is but I have them setup to a point where I really dig the tone and output that they are giving me! The weird thing for me was I purchased another Anderson with H01/SF/SF setup thinking I couldn't make it without the humbucker in the bridge position and used that guitar out on my last few gigs but to find myself wanting the VA5's so I put down the humbucker this weekend and went back to the singles!
Well At least I have the humbucker for other urges!...:D

JP

[Rupe]

Back when I played a 2 humbucker guitar in a funk band (Gibson Howard Roberts Fusion), almost all of my rhythm work was done on the middle setting with the neck volume rolled off a bit more than the bridge volume, then both rolled off together with a volume pedal. This worked well for getting a nice "quack" to my clean tones.

[Harker1440]

I am getting ready to tinker with a couple of my TAG for the very same reasons
I am replacing an M1 with an M3 in my Drop Top to party along with an h3 bridge
and
I am swapping an M2 for an M3 in the bridge of my Cobra S and moving the m2 to the neck
Will gig with both his week end and will post results next week

[tom]

the m2 and m3 are a wider spacing, and will not fit in the m1 hole.

[sylvanshine]

when 2 pickups are on in parallel, the one with the lower impedance will predominate. in other words, if the bridge pickup is really hot and the neck pickup is really weak, the combination will sound "more like" the neck pickup

So is the converse true? Series would gravitate towards the higher impedance?

On a performance related note, I played out this weekend with a modified Marshall JMP (by the great Clay Powers of Charley's). I was getting incredible spanky tones out of my chambered Les Paul's neck pickup with the volume knob at 2.

[tom]

i was talking about the way the pickups are connected together, like on most guitars, not how the coils of the pickup are oriented. most guitars combine pickups in parallel. putting 2 pickups in series with each other is not often done since it results in a very high impedance and dark tone. it of course can be done, just not often with great results.

[greenpicks88]

I have an atom coming very soon :D that has 2 M1's and a H3, I will be interested to hear if this combo works well together. I want the bridge pickup to be hotter and louder but I hope it doesn't blow the M's out of the water. Any thoughts on how they would work together, Tom?

[tom]

there will certainly be a jump when the h3 is on, but i think you'll be able to get your balance with adjusting pu height.

[Rhys]

-my old atom with H1-/H02 had a wonderfully sparkly in between sound.
-my new atom with M1/H2 is okay but much less so than the old.




i loved the combination of similar to HO1 and HO2


Actually, now that I think about it, my old Atom had an H1 in the neck, not an H1-. So I gather that having a hotter neck, or at least a neck that is closer to the output of the bridge, will generally give me what I subjectively think is a nicer in-between sound.

I wonder how much difference there'd be by switching from M1/M1/H2 to H02 or H01+ in the bridge. I don't need all the output of the full H2 anyway (although I do like the split sound a lot and I'd miss that).

[Suriel Zayas]

I have an atom coming very soon :D that has 2 M1's and a H3, I will be interested to hear if this combo works well together. I want the bridge pickup to be hotter and louder but I hope it doesn't blow the M's out of the water. Any thoughts on how they would work together, Tom?

i have an h2 that works well with my 2 m1's. however, the h3 might be just a tad too hot the m1's. i do use the h3 in my dtc with sa's and there it works well.