Anyone had their LP retrofitted w/ BFTS?

[Ray K.]

Has anyone bothered to have the BFTS retrofitted to their LP? As was mentioned in another thread, my TAG has spoiled me from my other guitars.

So, I did a pickup swap in my LP over the weekend, even though it gets little play time these days. But, as I was tuning it up (again and again!) while playing, I started thinking of checking into having it retrofitted with the BFTS.

I have a local tech that is authorized. I guess I just need to find out how much and decide if it's worth doing.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Ray K.

[GaryMcT]

I haven't, but a co-worker has (after playing my Andys!), and he loves it. I think it turned out great.

[Mister T]

My Les Paul and my Brian Moore have both been fitted with BFTS. To me it is the only way to fly.

[Ray K.]

Thanks guys. :)

So, I start calling around. My local tech (30+ years) is listed on Buzz's site, so naturally I call him first. Nope, he's not sure why he's listed. So we talk "shop" about BFTS and other things. Called another known tech in a city about 40 minutes away. Nope, he's given it all up and not sure why he's still listed.

Next I call a shop 2 hours away that I've bought from before (TAG dealer!). Yeah, they do it. How much? $200!! :eek: Ahh, thanks for your time.

Finally, I call a tech I don't know, but has a good rep. He's about an hour away. He does the retrofits regularly and charges $140. That's more like it!

I'll have to mull this over, but I may just get it done. As long as the workmanship is above par, I doubt I'd regret it.

Then again, I could just wait and get an Atom CT! :D

I'll let ya'll know if I follow through with this, and how it goes.

Thanks,
Ray K.

[mbrown3]

Yeah, their site is really out of date. I looked into having my Swan 'feitenized', but haven't gotten around to it yet. I've tried some other luthiers' own 'systems' that are as good (and one that was better) or better than BFTS, but all my other guitars are BFTS, so for consistency I'll likely have the BFTS done on my Swan too.

[Ray K.]

Yeah, I've looked at other "systems" also. Like you, I'd rather go with the BFTS to stay consistent.

Thanks,
Ray K.

[Devnor]

Ever since I got my TAG I've been slowing doing BFTS mods on my other guitars...a 85 Les Paul, a couple Deans & Hamers.

[mbrown3]

Yeah, I've looked at other "systems" also. Like you, I'd rather go with the BFTS to stay consistent.

Thanks,
Ray K.

Yeah, some of them (like the earvana) are crap, and others, particularly the ones that luthiers do themselves (and many have their own way of using a compensated nut) are pretty good. The best I've heard/used (even over BFTS for sure) is Melancon's own system. Sweetest intonation I've heard across the entire fretboard, and I think BFTS is very good. But 2 of my 3 of my electrics and one of my acoustics are BFTS, and I'll probably convert those 2 to BFTS too, to keep them all the same.

[Ray K.]

Devnor, thanks for chiming in. "Slowly" is the key word here. That's why I haven't already rushed in and had it done to my LP. It's a bit lower on the priority list at the moment, but it's at least on the list. :)

mbrown3, ahh, see I didn't realize Melancon had their own "secret recipe." Learned something. The only guitar of theirs I've ever touched was the one below about a year ago, and not for long. I was shopping for an Anderson and also looking at a Grosh, which I wound up taking home. Only, later sold it to buy one of my Andersons. ;)

http://www.elitemusicsales.com/inventory/guitars/electric/melancon/cat1.html

Thanks,
Ray K.

[Pietro]

I was going to have my other guitars converted, but here's the thing.

On one of the weekend worship teams I play with, another guitarist plays two different cobras, one S and one hollow, and when I play my PRS withOUT the BFTS alongside his guitars WITH the BFTS, it sounds REALLY sweet... what to do? I don't have any real "electric" with the BFTS, just the Crowdster Plus, and it sounds fine alongside him, too, but to my ears, there's something happening when one guitar has BFTS and one doesn't. Am I insane? Anyone else noticed that?

[tom]

one out of tune guitar doesn't sound as bad as two out of tune guitars?

[Pietro]

Ha ha! I guess that's one way to look at it!

[crash]

Yeah, some of them (like the earvana) are crap...

I couldn't find a local Feiten-izer to do my custom G&L Legacy, so I put an Earvana on it myself to see what the results would be. It did take some tweaking, but it rings pretty much as in-tune as any Feiten-equipped guitar I've played. And I can still use a normal tuner (even though I have the StroboStomp II).

I also put one on a Variax 700. (It's the house guitar at my church, and we have a horrible 60-cycle hum issue. The Variax is immune, so I use it there. Oy...). Anyway, that one worked out great too. So it's been a good experience for me.

But, that being said, I just can't bring myself to put one on my trusy Breedlove C-25.

Anyone have any experience with Feiten-izing an acoustic?

[SonicGator]

Here is a method I use for tuning, that sounds good to me and doesn't require any mods to the guitar. I'm not sure if this is the best system or not, but I can hear a difference using this method over other methods.
This is long, but worth it:


How To Tune The Guitar To Perfection

The following is a reprint of THE GUILD OF AMERICAN LUTHIERS data sheet #45.

Many guitarists are frustrated because of their attempts to tune the guitar to pure chords (free of beats). These particular players have very sensitive ears that prefer pure intervals and reject the mandatory equal temperament. They tune their guitar beautifully pure on one chord only to discover that the next chord form is unacceptable. In too many instances they assume that there must be a flaw in the workmanship on the fingerboard. Their problem is not in the construction of the guitar. It is one of pure tuning verses equal temperament.

You must accept this compromise because the guitar is an instrument of fixed pitch and the strings must be tuned to tempered intervals, not pure. Equal temperament is the name given to a system of dividing the chromatic scale into 12 equal half steps. Guitarists who have been trying to tune to one or another pure chord form must learn to understand and accept equal temperament. (They might be interested to know that to approximate pure chords on all forms would require about three dozen frets within the octave.) The system of equal temperament reduces the number to twelve, thereby making manageable all instruments of fixed pitch.

Here is what all of this means to the guitarist: You must not, at any time, use harmonic tones at the 7th fret as a point of reference (skilled piano tuners could use them because they know how many beats to introduce between 4th and 5th). Harmonic tones at the 7th fret are pure 5ths, while in equal temperament each 5th must be lowered slightly. To tune by harmonics at the 7th fret (as occasionally ill-advised) will make the guitar sound entirely unacceptable on some chord forms.

On the other hand, all harmonics at the 12th and 5th frets, being one and two octaves above the open strings, are immediately useful as explained below. All octaves and unisons are pure on all instruments of fixed pitch. Therefore, you may use harmonics at 12th and 5th as reference tones in the following tuning instructions.

Actually this discussion and the following suggestions are for those players who have been tuning to pure intervals. When the steps have been followed correctly the guitar will be as perfectly tuned as it could be in the hands of a professional. Nevertheless, when you have finished, your sensitive ear may notice that on each major chord form there is always one tone slightly high. If you start adjusting a particular string on a certain chord form, you only compound the problem because then the next chord form will be completely objectionable. Tune the guitar as instructed below and let it stand. How to help your ear accept equal temperament: It is easier to face a problem if we are prepared in advance and expect it. If you are one of those persons who is sensitive to pure intervals, here is what you are going to notice on an absolutely perfectly tuned guitar in equal temperament: Play an open E major chord. Listen to G# on the third string and you most likely will want to lower it very slightly. Don't do it. Ignore it. Enjoy the overall beauty and resonance of chord just as does the pianist.

That troublesome second string: Play an open position A major chord. Listen to the C# on the second string and you may want to lower it slightly. Play a first position C chord and listen to the E on the first string and fourth string at 2. These tones are slightly higher than your ear would like.

Now play an open position G chord. Listen to B on the second string. Yes, it would sound a little better if lowered ever so slightly. Why not try it? Slack off the second string a couple of vibrations and notice what beautiful G chord results. Now play the C chord and with that lowered second string, and you are going to dislike the rough C and E a lot more than before. Take the open B, second string back up to equal temperament so that it will be equally acceptable on all forms. Learn to expect and accept the slight sharpness of the major third in each chord (and oppositely, the flatness of the minor third in each minor chord). Train your ear to accept tempered intervals and you will be much happier with your guitar.

PROCEDURE:

Tuning the 1st and 6th strings: The E, open 1st string, must be in pure unison with the harmonic of the E, 6th string at the fifth fret. When these two strings have been properly tuned with each other, continue as follows. Tuning the 4th string: Play a harmonic on the (in tune) 6th string at twelve, and as this harmonic sounds, adjust the 4th string until the tone E on the second fret is in pure unison. Now you have the E, open 1st string, 1st on the 4th string at two, and E, open 6th string tuned pure (permissible because they are octaves).

Tuning the 2nd string: Play a harmonic on the (in tune) 4th string at twelve. As this sounds, adjust the 2nd string until D at the third fret is in pure unison. As you have used two fretted tones for references and as the frets are positioned for tempered intervals, you now have the open 1st, 2nd 4th and 6th strings in tempered tuning.

Tuning the 3rd string: As it is easier to adjust a string while listening to a continuous reference tone, you may first try the following: Play a harmonic on the (in tune) 4th string at twelve and as this sounds, adjust the 3rd string until D at the 7th fret is in pure unison.

Double check: Now make this check to see if you have been accurate or if the instrument plays tune when fretted at seven. Play a harmonic on the (now tuned) G string at twelve, and as this tone sounds, play G on the 1st string at three. The two tones should be in pure unison. If they are not, either you are at fault or the instrument doesn't fret tune at seven. Go back to the beginning and carefully check each step up to this point. If the tones are still faulty, then readjust the 3rd string until the harmonic at twelve is in unison with the 1st at three. Do not tamper with the 1st and 4th strings because it is the 3rd string you are trying to bring in tune. When you have the 1st, 6th, 4th, 2nd and 3rd strings in tune, in that order, continue with the remaining 5th string.

Tuning the 5th string: Play the tone A on the (in tune) 3rd string, at the second fret. Listen to this pitch carefully and now adjust the 5th string until the harmonic at twelve is in pure unison. When the foregoing steps are followed correctly, the strings will be tuned perfectly to equal temperament. No further tuning adjustments are permissible.

[GaryMcT]

SonicGator. . would be interesting to use this method and then figure out offsets to put in a tuner so that you don't have to go through this everytime you tune. Would be really easy to do with a Turbo Tuner.

[SonicGator]

SonicGator. . would be interesting to use this method and then figure out offsets to put in a tuner so that you don't have to go through this everytime you tune. Would be really easy to do with a Turbo Tuner.

Probably would be faster. Once you have the method down, it really doesn't take that long.

One other trick I use after changing strings or if I'm in a dropped tuning is to perform a rough tuning with a tuner using "traditional" tuning, but in an order that the strings don't seem to go so screwy (I then fine tune with the above method). For instance, if you change a set of strings, then tune up your low-E, it goes way out as the neck tension changes as the other strings are brought in tune, so I use this (an Eric Johnson trick variation) to reduce the amount of trips back to the same strings.

Tune Low-E (6th String)
Tune High-E (1st String)
Tune D (4th String)
Tune G (3rd String)
Tune A (5th String)
Tune B (2nd String)

This usually gets the the strings close with less retuning needed for me. Obviously, as they stretch it needs adjusting, but I keep doing the above until it's "stable," then fine tune.

And eventually, I actually get to play the guitar :D

[GaryMcT]

Might also be interesting to compare the results to something like the Peterson sweetened tunings.

[tom]

have had my acoustics done since 96'. first had a larrivee om done and it made the guitar sound so much better. i liked it before but loved it after. at the time i was doing a lot of playing with an acoustic piano and life was hell trying to be in tune with it. after feiten, just tune once and it didn't matter what key we were in. then i had my olson done. i have to say that it was the most in tune of all my acoustics anyway, but it was still better after. there are definitely acoustic players that don't get the feiten thing but i don't understand it. to me it's night and day.
i always tune my acoustic by ear and it's silly easy.

[GaryMcT]

Does an acoustic Feiten retrofit change the saddles, or just the nut? Very very tempting. . . :)

[tom]

it varies from maker to maker. sometimes the saddle slot has to be filled and re routed. sometimes just a wider saddle has to be used. it's a considerably bigger job on an acoustic.