Why no dual pickups on the Crowdster Plus?

[akivisuals]

Hey guys. I'm new here but have played Andersons for years. Anyways, just wondering why there are no neck pickup versions for the Crowdster Plus developed. I'd imagine that it would be a VERY popular option. Tom, maybe you can answer this one for me.

[tom]

have thought about it but it does complicate an already complicated guitar. would need yet another switch and we're pretty close to out of room in there. maybe later this year we'll revisit it.

[teleplucker]

So does "maybe" mean that you are thinking seriously about it or is it like when I tell my kids "maybe" and I really mean "there's no chance that is going to happen".

I don't really need another guitar but a C+ with 2 electric pups would "probably" be one I would have to have.

[akivisuals]

I was actually talking to a worship leader buddy of mine last night about his Crowdster Plus and mine and he lamented the fact that he didn't have a neck pickup. In fact, he said that he'd probably get another Crowdster Plus if it did have the neck pickup as would I. It seems like there'd be a pretty good market for it. hint, hint.... :D

[Pietro]

Don't know if I could afford another one, and I'm sure it would be too risky to mod mine to have two pickups, so I'd probably stick with what I got.

But, Tom, if you do make one, I think it would look way cool with no oval pickup ring around the neck pickup, but keep the ring around the bridge pickup... I think it's cool anyway...

[tom]

what controls would you be willing to give up to make room for more electric controls?

[Pietro]

That might be the rub more than anything, Tom.

What comes to mind is maybe small sliders for the tone controls, but we don't want to ruin the beautiful appearance of the guitar.

I could get by without the current switch, but most couldn't maybe. I use volume controls or pedals mostly, I almost never use the three-way switch, and I never need the mono-stereo switch either... With a Stereo cable always on hand...

I could actually get by without the tone controls for the acoustic as I use my AG Stomp and the house mixer, but again, I wonder how many couldn't.

But the bottom line is this, and I might be supporting your decision (so far) not to offer this. When I need the flexibility of more pickups for my electric, I simply reach for an electric, because I probably want electric (slinky) strings, too at that point. (I have found myself wanting a rhythm pickup on my C+ though)

That said, for me, the dream C+ would be Electric Volume, electric tone, Acoustic Volume, two pickups with a switch, and that's it. (What about tone controls for acoustic on the BACK, mounted recessed into the control cavity plate.

Sorry if I'm rambling... I'd be happy to test one of those out for you if you ever make a prototype.;) But in all honesty, I'd be more tempted by a carved top Atom (probably hollow) with a ghost or fishman bridge.

Thanks for listening!

[teleplucker]

Here's an uneducated guess.

Use the existing 3 way switch to control the 2 electric pups, change the electric volume control to a concentric pot ( volume and tone for both electric pups). The remaining controls for the acoustic side stay the same.

In mono mode the blend would be acheived by the position of both volume controls.

[SonicGator]

Fender used concentric pots on their American Deluxe Power Tele that was made a few years ago. The controls as I remember them were:

3-way switch for Neck and Bridge standard Tele switching
Concentric Volume/Tone pot for Magnetic Pickups
3 way Mini-Switch for Magnetic/Blend/Piezo
Concentric Volume/Tone pot for Piezo

[akivisuals]

Fender used concentric pots on their American Deluxe Power Tele that was made a few years ago. The controls as I remember them were:

3-way switch for Neck and Bridge standard Tele switching
Concentric Volume/Tone pot for Magnetic Pickups
3 way Mini-Switch for Magnetic/Blend/Piezo
Concentric Volume/Tone pot for Piezo

That sounds like a viable option. Like Pietro, I use either an AG Stomp or a Baggs D.I. for tone shaping. Although it's handy to have those controls on the guitar, maybe a simple tone knob would be enough to facilitate adding the electronics for a second pickup and switching.

[Pietro]

teleplucker, you are a freakin' genius!

[tom]

different electronics would have to be made for telepluckers idea. chances are the magnetics would have to be active to have a mono option. not sure how many people would be happy with no selector switch for el/both/ac?

[akivisuals]

different electronics would have to be made for telepluckers idea. chances are the magnetics would have to be active to have a mono option. not sure how many people would be happy with no selector switch for el/both/ac?

I would probably prefer a 3 way for the el/both/ac vs blending it in with just volume knobs. How many knobs and/or switches do you have room for in there? Maybe we can run a poll to see what people would want in the switching? I'd love to pick up one of these 2 pup Crowdster Plus'es if they ever come to fruition... especially if they come in Koa! :p

[tom]

i'm happy to listen to people's ideas. i remember a while back people chimed in on how they use their power bridge. the problem usually seems to be that there is not one size fits all solution, and since active electronics are not our thing, we are not well equipped to solve new applications that require them.

[mojocaster]

I have no idea how the electronics would work, but you could call it the Crowdster Plus Plus :D

[akivisuals]

I've got a buddy who leads worship at our church with a Crowdster Plus, but he doesn't really use the bridge pup much because he wants a cleaner sound. He wanted to know if the pickup can be placed at the neck for more of a rhythm sound.

What would be needed to add another pickup in the current Crowdster plus? Would you be able to wire it to select either pickup with the current electronics?

[santellavision]

different electronics would have to be made for telepluckers idea. chances are the magnetics would have to be active to have a mono option. not sure how many people would be happy with no selector switch for el/both/ac?The guys over at the Hamer forum usually mod their Duotones (Dual pickup and acoustic) to eliminate the Elec/Both/Ac switch. Most prefer to adjust volume for each side instead of the switch.

[Pietro]

I have two dual voice guitars with the switch (my C+ and my PRS) and two with no switch (my Flat Five X and my US Masters - which has NO volume on the acoustic side even).

For me, I almost never use the switch and could live without it. If I had a choice between the switch and a second pickup, the answer is easy. I'd want the second pickup.

Just one man's opinion. Also, I had a GREAT after-market mod done on my C+ last night. Check it out here (http://andersonforum.com/board/showthread.php?t=4899).

[akivisuals]

So Tom, would you be able to put the plus pickup in the neck vs the bridge on an aftermarket install or from a new order? How might that sound with the same pickup moved to the neck?

[Shannon]

i'm happy to listen to people's ideas. i remember a while back people chimed in on how they use their power bridge. the problem usually seems to be that there is not one size fits all solution, and since active electronics are not our thing, we are not well equipped to solve new applications that require them.

Tom,
Let's also try to make sure that IF a 2 pup option becomes available that it is Back-serviceable just like the Plus option is now..

I'd hate to shell out $XXXX for my C-plus only to have the Plus plus option out for the same price in 6 months.... ;)
BUT, if it were possible to add the neck pup to my KOA C-plus... I'd probably be willing to pay the price for admission....

But I agre with your first statement... we're getting to the point where we're REALLY complicating an already complicated guitar... and we REALLY don't want to sacrifice ANY acoustic tone for the extra pup.. imho (not even sure if it would, just a thought)

[tom]

the neck pickup conversion would be a little more involved since there is a solid section in the body right where the pu would be. to make it retro able, i'm not sure where the extra switch would go.
the neck pickup would have to be a different pu since the string spacing is different enough up there.

[akivisuals]

the neck pickup conversion would be a little more involved since there is a solid section in the body right where the pu would be. to make it retro able, i'm not sure where the extra switch would go.
the neck pickup would have to be a different pu since the string spacing is different enough up there.

Sounds like a lot of work. Well, keep us posted if you're open to trying that out. I know that my friend would definitely do the mod if you can do it. I'd get it done also.

How about the switch next to where the acoustic/electric selector switch is?

[Shannon]

the neck pickup conversion would be a little more involved since there is a solid section in the body right where the pu would be. to make it retro able, i'm not sure where the extra switch would go.
the neck pickup would have to be a different pu since the string spacing is different enough up there.

Wow...
You weren't kidding when you said "complicated"

Is there REALLY a big PULL for that configuration on a Crowdster?

Don't you have other options that have more flexible Electric guitar sounds and still have a respectable acoustic sound for the guys who are PRIMARILY looking for an electric with some acoustic assistance?

[tom]

yes it is complicated, and no we do not have an alternative right now for the mostly electric guy who wants some acoustic sound. we used to use the fishman powerbridge but they have stopped offering it to us.

[akivisuals]

Wow...
You weren't kidding when you said "complicated"

Is there REALLY a big PULL for that configuration on a Crowdster?

Don't you have other options that have more flexible Electric guitar sounds and still have a respectable acoustic sound for the guys who are PRIMARILY looking for an electric with some acoustic assistance?

I think there are plenty of options for electric guys who want an occasional acoustic sound. The Xbridge or Powerbridge comes to mind. I have the Powerbridge on my DTC. But, for guys who want an acoustic sound as their primary sound with the occasional electric rhythm tones mixed in, a dual pickup Crowdster Plus would be PERFECT! :D I'm chomping at the bit for one!

[Shannon]

I think there are plenty of options for electric guys who want an occasional acoustic sound. The Xbridge or Powerbridge comes to mind. I have the Powerbridge on my DTC. But, for guys who want an acoustic sound as their primary sound with the occasional electric rhythm tones mixed in, a dual pickup Crowdster Plus would be PERFECT! :D I'm chomping at the bit for one!


Oh, I didn't realize the powerbridge was no longer available...

I see where you're coming from AKivisuals, but it just seems like a LOT of stuff in the ""swiss army knife" to me.

I mean, there are certain sounds I just can't get out of ANY of my guitars but my Charvel/Jackson Model 6.. and the same goes for my Strat, but I just don't know that I'd be willing to sacrifice anything on a C+ just to ALMOST get that tone...
Ya know?

I mean, in a situation where I'm OUT and need both guitars, I'll just bring both guitars... when I'm leading worship... or whatever other acoustic gigs I do, then I THINK (could be wrong) with the right Amp/Pre and eq setup,I could PROBABLY get a pretty good electric rhythm tone out of it too...

I COULD be wrong because I'm speculating... anybody care to back that up (or negate it completely:D )

[akivisuals]

Oh, I didn't realize the powerbridge was no longer available...

I see where you're coming from AKivisuals, but it just seems like a LOT of stuff in the ""swiss army knife" to me.

I mean, there are certain sounds I just can't get out of ANY of my guitars but my Charvel/Jackson Model 6.. and the same goes for my Strat, but I just don't know that I'd be willing to sacrifice anything on a C+ just to ALMOST get that tone...
Ya know?

I mean, in a situation where I'm OUT and need both guitars, I'll just bring both guitars... when I'm leading worship... or whatever other acoustic gigs I do, then I THINK (could be wrong) with the right Amp/Pre and eq setup,I could PROBABLY get a pretty good electric rhythm tone out of it too...

I COULD be wrong because I'm speculating... anybody care to back that up (or negate it completely:D )

You're right in that the guitar will be a "swiss army knife" of sorts. I'm not really looking for the C+ to be the perfect Les Paul and perfect acoustic. It is right now, a REALLY good acoustic AND a REALLY good electric. I was just wishing that it had a neck pickup because often when playing rhythm I want a cleaner, less bright sound out of my electric. If I was leading worship with my drop top classic I don't think I'd be using my bridge humbucker for the rhythm guitar parts during cleaner passages. In the same way, I wouldn't want to be using that tone on the C+ if I had a neck pickup tone available. I also don't like switching guitars in between songs. It messes with the flow of the worship. So having all that in one package makes a lot of sense for me and many others I'd bet. The Crowdster Plus is a hot instrument for a lot of worship leaders and would most likely be hotter still with the addition of a neck pickup.

[Shannon]

Can't disagree...
I NEVER switch guitars in the middle of worship and I don't know any worship leader in his right mind who would... so IF that neck pickup would be a viable option without altering the current acoustic tone, I can certainly see the draw...

I guess part of me does NOT want to believe that there is a better option (or will be any time soon) when I'm about to spend WAY TOO MUCH (so my brain is telling me) to buy a current model C+!:D

[tom]

i don't see a second pickup any time soon. if it were to happen, i would figure a way to reteo fit it in so that it looked and worked right. remember this is first and foremost an amplified acoustic so it's not going to ever be your favorite electric guitar. strings, spacing and feel are way more acoustic than electric.

[Pietro]

Put me on the list of guys who want to have that retrofit done. But I'm in no hurry. Take your time.

Using the guitar wireless in acoustic only mode this weekend. I need to have more fun than normal, since I'm also preaching.

[JOE]

Me too! I'm in!

I have a Koa C+ on the way too, and this is a discussion I have been following avidly. I am comfortable letting Tom take his time, and very happy that the goal would be to make it "upgradeable" later on.
I want to start by seeing how the Crowdster Plus handles as is!
I just hope I can get "clean" tones, like these *(Check out the "Mercury" examples) -

http://www.carramps.com/sounds.html

I love sounds #1, 2, 5 and 9. That is what I mean by "clean"; I don't know if there is a better term....

I am hoping there is not too much of a Tele-bridge pickup sound...somewhere in one of the threads, somebody said: "like that "tele" sound that Crowdster Plus players like so much...." and I thought: "Noooo!" but, when I had a talk with Roy at the beginning of this process, he said "A lot depends on the Amp...you can get clean sounds from the amp by rolling back on the treble...etc..".

I am just smitten by the feel of Andys. Period. I own no electric guitars, and love acoustic, but one day I picked up an Andy and thought: " Ok, now I get it....". From there, I recognized after a lot of exploring that I like a clean sound mostly, only occasionally tele-ish or grungy and I am just going ahead on faith. I know that electric felt stunningly comfortable and responsive. I know it will be a great acoustic sound. I don't think I can lose on finding an electric sound I like, but I am "impatiently curious" and hovering over the details here...

Cheers!