Will the minibuckers fit in a soapbar guitar?

[malabarmusic]

I'd like to retrofit my Baker BJ with the Anderson mini humbuckers. The guitar came stock with Dimarzio P90s, which are not very tall. I'm OK with routing a *little* bit of wood, but the neck position makes me nervous because the pickup cavity is over part of the neck tenon.

So ... before I take the plunge I need to know the depth of these pickups. Thanks in advance for sharing any info.

While we're on the topic, which among the M1/M2/M3 models would one recommend for playing harder-edged rock in this type of guitar (short scale, solid mahogany body, mahogany/rosewood neck, relatively bright for this style guitar). Thanks again!

- DB

[Stan Malinowski]

I just posted this over in the General Discussion Area, but will repost here:

I tried an experiment once attempting to change the p90 pickups in a Gibson DC Junior to Duncan Minihumbuckers. I found the problem was not with the form factor, but with the mounting logistics. P90s have 2 screws which are placed thru the pickup cover and actually screw into the wood in the pickup cavity. Minis on the other hand have their mounting "ears" situated like humbuckers on the side of the pu. Historically there are two ways of mounting mini hbs: 1) there is a metal plate which screws to the wood in the bottom of the pu cavity and the height adjsuting screws go into this metal plate. A mini hb trim ring is fixed to the guitars top (like a full size hb cover) to make everything look tidy. 2) Gibson Firebirds have a trim ring which functions like a full size hb ring - the height screws go thru the ring and the ring is screwe to the top of the guitar.

Either way will require screw hols in the top of the guitar for the trim ring. Also GOOD luck finding the parts for either option! I could not find the metal plate for 1) anywhere - AllParts, Stew-Mac, WD or even Duncan! I had the Firebird trim rings on back order from Gibson for 6 months - they never arrived and I decided not to proceed with the project.

[tom]

our mini's are 7/8" tall. we make a dress ring that rides inside the p90 hole, so you would have to drill new mounting hole but they would be inside the p90 hole. you will have to check about the depth.

[Stan Malinowski]

we make a dress ring that rides inside the p90 hole

Tom,

So where were you a year ago when I pulled my hair out trying to find the proper hardware to make a mini fit into a soapbar route??:D

Seriously, VERY nice design feature!!

[malabarmusic]

Thanks for the reply, Tom. I'll get my ruler out. If things look good, I'll be ordering up a pair ASAP. I was considering tring the Lace P900s, but those things are enormous -- almost 1-1/4" IIRC.

Any thoughts on my question about which model?

- DB

[tom]

stan, you know where i was.
db, the M1 is very single coilish, not quite as hot as a traditional p90. the m2 is about p90 output, but made for bridge position, it has a wider string spacing. the m3 is hotter still, approaching humbucker output, but clearer because of the narrower aperature. we haven't done a hotter neck position model yet. let me know if that is of interest.

[malabarmusic]

I think of a standard P90 output level as being close to that of a PAF-style humbucker, so if the M1 is a tad below vintage soapbars it's probably plenty hot for the neck. The only reason I could see wanting a hotter neck model (M1+?) would be to better balance output with the M3 when using the middle position on a 2-pickup guitar.

I'll probably give the M1/M2 combo a test drive and see what happens. The 7/8" depth should require very little routing, because the original soapbars on my guitar were 5/8". The Lace P900s are actually 1-1/8", which is still almost double the depth of the stock units.

- DB

[tom]

just got done trying out my new guitar, and i left the m1 pretty high in the guitar, i normally lower the neck pickup quite a bit. it shouldn't have any trouble keeping up with the m2 or m3. i'm also really liking the tone up high. the m1 has a super weak magnet field, so it seems to not do the bad stuff that other pickups do when you get them close.

[malabarmusic]

Earlier today I ordered an M1/M2 combo. It will take a few weeks for them to arrive and get them installed, but I'll report back on how they work out. Thanks for the helpful info!

- DB

[Scott Peterson]

Originally posted by tom
just got done trying out my new guitar, and i left the m1 pretty high in the guitar, i normally lower the neck pickup quite a bit. it shouldn't have any trouble keeping up with the m2 or m3. i'm also really liking the tone up high. the m1 has a super weak magnet field, so it seems to not do the bad stuff that other pickups do when you get them close.

How close (string fretted at last fret, measured from the top of the pickup to the bottom of the string) are you putting the M1?

Any suggestions of what you do at the factory for setting up Mini-Buckers to start with? (I am a curious tweakaholic).

[tom]

i prbably shouldn't admit this publicly, but when i set pickup height, i don't use a ruler, which is weird for me since i am big on all other measurments. we did come up with some numbers for the assembly team, but i can't remember exactly what they are. it does vary with model. some like VA's, have high magnet strength, and you have to be super careful not to get them too high or they will grab the strings and give you a bad case of stratitis. having said that, i will say that ej's guitar has all three pickups really close to the strings and it works for him. our h serries humbuckers have a very weak field at the strings, so they can go as close as you want. i personally like the tone a bit further away. the mini's have a super weak field, so they can go anywhere.
i start with the bridge pickup and get it sounding the way i like. i hold the strings down at the last fret, and set the high side of the pickup about 1/8" away form the strings. i set the bass side a bit further away. again, this is done to taste, and it depends on what you are after. generally if you're after a more aggressive sound with more articulation you're going to like the pickup closer to the strings. if you're after a sweeter tone with a softer attack, you'll probably want it lower. after i get the bridge pickup set, i adjust the others till the balance is right, right being a subjective word. i like to see a bit of a jump when i go to the bridge pickup, so i tend to have the neck and middle pretty low. if you're using a hotter bridge pickup, you may not have to go as low to get that jump.
sorry to ramble, but this is really a adjust to taste subject. the mini's take on a really cool single coil character when they are low. when you pull them up they seem to get fatter without getting bloated. have i said lately how much i love the mini's?
pickup height is a great place to have some fun with your guitar. you can really change the character of your guitar by messing with the height. if you really love where you are at and are affraid of wrecking it, take some reasonably accurate masurements of where you are, then have some fun.

[Scott Peterson]

Tom,

Thanks. That is almost identical to the advice I usually give out on the subject. :D

Just looking for guidance because I have never used Mini's before.

Thanks!!!

[JNixon]

So are the mounting rings included with the minis? or are they a custom order item? I've loved what I have heard about them so far and I'd love to get them into a P-90 routed body.

Thanks.

[tom]

i haven't really thought about it. they won't come with the pickups normally, because you don't normally need them. if you need them for a p90 replacement, just make sure to ask for them.