Amp/Overdrive/Distortion

[njjessee]

Hey folks!

Looking for some advice. I play in my church's worship band and we cover a lot of different styles, from hymns to classic rock, modern rock, R&B, pop, country, etc. you name it.

Here's the question... I'd like to use a single amp with overdrive/distortion pedals in front that would emulate the sounds necessary to cover the above styles.

I like using the overdrive/distortion pedals in front of a volume pedal so I can add "that" sound at that spot at the right volume.

Thoughts?

[tom]

i'm in a similar situation. can't play loud enough to get the amp working hard. been trying pedals, haven't found perfect yet. most seem to work best when the amp is already starting to work. right now using the dm4 from line 6. use three differnt amounts of gain on the same tube driver model. also use it before the volume pedal so i can have the big wash of gainy chords at a lower volume in the background.

[njjessee]

Yeah, I can't really crank the amp either. Right now, I'm playing through a Mesa F50 head with a Mesa 3/4 4x12 cabinet. The clean channel is really good. Sometimes, I'll use an F30 1x12 combo, but it has a little more "white" noise that gets picked up by the mic.

I'm really fond of the tone I get from a Boss SD-2. It has a nice crunch and there are a few songs where the lead channel sounds awesome. I've been using this to cover the basic overdrive, it's got more drive than a TS-9.

I use a Distortion Pro for heavier crunch sounds. I really like how you can adjust the saturation. I use this pedal a lot for songs we do by Dave Crowder, Charlie Hall, Chris Tomlin, etc.

I sometimes use a Fulldrive 2 or a TS-9 that's been modified to TS808 specs. The Fulldrive is very transparent to me. It takes your amp's tone and adds overdrive. Heavier than a TS-9, with the boost channel adding more sustain.

I'm looking to get Analogman mod an MT-2 I have. I think this will cover more of the Peavey 5150 type sounds I'm looking for. It's hard for me to describe this sound I'm looking for. I've heard Dann Huff get this sound on a CD by 4 Him. Kind of a "throaty" distortion that really sustains.

[MapleGuitar]

I have the same gig. Currently use the Barber Burn Unit in front of Dr Z Maz 18 Jr.
With the Burn Unit off, I get nice clean tube tone from the Maz 18. With Burn Unit channel 1, get the gritty slight overdrive tone. With channel 2, get the thicker distortion sounds. The Burn Unit has a mid-hump, but I like it.

[mbrown3]

If you guys come up with a solution, let me know! I've been trying to figure something out in this regard for a LONG time. It was even to the point at one time where I put my amp off stage in a back room and mic'ed it with the cable running out to the input so that I could get volume where I needed it without blowing out the congregation. Then they just turned it down at the board. But this only works when it is practically feasible to do so. Haven't really tried any power brakes, but maybe they would help a bit. This is where some amp company needs to do some thinking/designing - it seems this is a common request, but nothing on the market. Somebody could make a lot of money. Say, the first TA amp, perhaps? Or maybe, how about TA teaming up with Mesa to solve this problem?!?

[tom]

just tried the fulltone stuff, did't work great for me with my other stuff, maybe that's part of my problem. i shouldn't say problem, my rig actually sounds real nice now, but there's always that extra 5% that i think i can get better. been talking to barber about trying their stuff. frank, is your burn unit the eq one?

[tom]

we're all fighting a mechanical problem. there's a wonderful thing that happens when your guitar is bombarded with loud sound coming off your speaker, the two interact and they feed each other. i think that's what i'm talking about when i say an amp is real dynamic and responsive. i've talked to many amp companies about this and they seem to be mostly interested in making more 100 watt amps. steve carr seems to be an exception. in their defense, is probably only costs $15 less to make a 10 watt amp than a 100 watt amp. i think they are worried about customers value perception. i'm using a hot plate, the 8 db setting seems to be as far as i can go before it starts messing with the dynamics of the amp. it definitely helps, but i wish i could push the amp harder. a friend suggested the demeter cabinet with the mic in it. my concern with that is that i only get to hear what comes out of the monitor, and that tone never thrills me. anybody have any experience with that?

[BrownDog]

Contact Ed DeGenaro @ THD - he swears by the Demeter SSC-1 slient speaker chamber. In fact, the Flexi audio clips at the THD site were done with the SSC-1.

http://www.thdelectronics.com/soundclips.htm

Can't hurt checking into it.

With tone and oneness, Mike

[MapleGuitar]

Tom, my Burn Unit is not the newer EQ version. And, I should mention that I'm a Drop-top and Classic player, mostly with single coils. As I recall, you're more of a Cobra guy, so it's possible that the Burn Unit works better with different types of guitars/pickups.

I also have the Barber Tone Pump, a very similar box in terms of function, but it doesn't color the tone as much.

The Fulltone FD2 gave nice tones in channel 1, but I could never work with it's channel 2 (or "boost" as I think he calls it).

I'm hoping David Barber eventually builds a 2-channel version of his Direct Drive. It's a great sounding box, but with only one channel, not flexible enough for my needs.

mbrown3, more amp builders are making low-wattage tube amps, like Savage, Carr, and Dr Z. At a recent guitar show near Philly PA, Reverend was demoing a new, small, light amp called a "Goblin" and it sounded fantastic. (It hasn't been released yet.) Our little church uses a PA system and my guitar amp is miked. So all I need is enough volume to hear myself.

[mbrown3]

Originally posted by MapleGuitar
mbrown3, more amp builders are making low-wattage tube amps, like Savage, Carr, and Dr Z. At a recent guitar show near Philly PA, Reverend was demoing a new, small, light amp called a "Goblin" and it sounded fantastic. (It hasn't been released yet.) Our little church uses a PA system and my guitar amp is miked. So all I need is enough volume to hear myself.


Right, the problem though is that, historically, tone quality gets better as volume goes up (at least, according to most guitar players' ears). This is for several reasons, including (as Tom mentioned) the response of the amp, dynamics issues, the pushing of speakers and power tubes, etc. The same kind of phenomenon is not available, in many cases, at lower volume levels. I generally put a lot of stock in driving the tubes and speakers. A power brake would help with keeping the volume low and still driving the tubes, but there's really no way to drive speakers at lower volumes. And it's very true that at higher volumes, the amp "interacts" with the guitar as each resonates - something magical happens there that you can't get with lower volume. So...some of the issues are just about volume in the first place.

Many of the amps you mention sound great and are low watts/low volume, but something is missed in many of these (at least, I find this to be true) - and this may just be a volume issue....i.e., there may not be any solution to it other than just playing louder - but hopefully someone will try. Perhaps some kind of sound proof box to fit over your amplifier so that you can crank it where it is, with a mic inside, running the mic out of it sot that the amp can be loud and yet the pure volume is not blowing everyone away. This might affect resonance, but perhaps not, if designed right. Hopefully someone will try...

[njjessee]

Okay guys, I tried a THD Hot Plate today. It actually worked very well. The sound tech was happy, I was happy, it was a good day!

I've changed my approach to this issue. In the past, I've placed the amp behind me and just in front of a stage curtain. I would stand about 8' or so away with a monitor just in front.

This Sunday, I placed the amp (Mesa F30) facing me and just beside the monitor. And rather than stand, I sat down. I placed the Hot Plate beside the amp and used the line out for a feed to the board. I was able to turn the amp volume up significantly more than normal (gain at 12 noon with volume around 10:30 o'clock), I set the Hot Plate at -16 db and cranked the line out until the sound tech was happy.

With this set up, the amp and PA system was extremely free of "white" noise... very quiet actually. There would be a fair amount of noise without the Hot Plate otherwise. The sound tech had good control over volume level, I wasn't being blown away from the speaker being right in front of me, but the amp was starting to work.

I will try cranking the amp more next Sunday and take away a few more db's from the speaker.

For me the positives were; I could crank the volume on the amp up, the sound tech still had control over the house volume, direct send to the board with a good level adjustment available, very quiet amp, and good tone.

I would say there was some interaction with the amp tone and Hot Plate, but what I was hearing still sounded really good to me.

Just thought I'd pass this on.

Noah

[tom]

the hot plate is a life saver for me as well. i run it at the 8db setting with the bass boost on. it sounds real natural to me there, any higher and the amp breaks up funny.

[Gary F.]

Happy Memorial Day, guys. I play the same type of material in my cover bands. My Carr Rambler with either a Maxon od 808 or my new Barber Direct Drive in front works great in smaller rooms. If i needed even less wattage in order to open it up, I'd use my Fender Super Champ. Doesn't have the bottom end of a 12", but that's the trade-off. When cranked on the clean channel, it sounds pretty darned full for such a small amp.