To Mod or not to Mod..(a 112 dilema)

[Casper]

I posted here last week about my current unhappiness with my Fender 65 DRRI. After trying out some nicer boutique Class A and A/B stuff, I am weighing the $700 to 1000.00 extra expense of upgrading amps against doing a Mod. Specifically, I have contacted Bob at Eurotubes and he sells the JJ upgraded tubes and his suggestion of the Weber Silver Bell or Blue Dog speaker including the multimeter and bias probe. All of this out the door around $275-300 range. I have 2 speakers at home (to possibly save even more bread) I could replace the Fender Jensen with..A Celestion V30 or a Peavey Sheffield. He swears by Webers and I don't know alot about them other than reading on the net a bit.
Bottom line, I think I am going with this mod before I spend the bread on an upgrade amp. Anybody done this or a similar mod? What was your speaker choice? What about these Weberthings??
thanks--Shaun

[kurt1981]

Hey, sounds good, webers are great speakers, I think your choice is all about what type of sound you're after. From what I hear, Weber makes a speaker that'll give you that vintage blackface fender sound, almost perfectly. One thing on the JJs, be carefull, I had some problems with the pins on the power tubes being smaller recently, which caused the tubes to sit loosely, so I hope they've addressed that problem. Doug at dougstubes only sells the jj tubes with the larger pins, he talks a bit about the problem on his site.
Kurt

[tom]

i would only mod an amp if i was really close to loving it. others may have different experience, but i wouldn't expect a mod to work miracles.

[Casper]

I kind of agree, Tom. I think I fell inlove with my friends' original 1970 amp and read that the reissues were identical except for minor details. I confess I didn't play the reissue much before I bought it. I think part of the decision was the legendary status, different tube set up, lower wattage. I like the size, weight and the initial spank (which can get out of control); however, the reverb is nearly unusable, the speaker is boomy and farty and I don't see ever needing the vibrato.

Good arguments on both sides. I did the mod on my Classic 30 and it did make a difference to me...not huge, but better response, warmth and resonance. I think the mod on the DRRI would solidify an already great idea, I know a tube change would definitely improve the reverb. I DO NOT know, however, if this mod will affect the amps pedal friendliness quotient? More research is needed I guess...thanks guys

[kurt1981]

I've read that the delux has a bright cap attached to the volume pot, I believe, and if you remove that, it's supposed to darken the amp a bit, to make it more pedal friendly. That's the problem I've had with most fenders, they get kind of raspy and harsh with overdrives. I did have a delux once, and put a celestion greenback in it, and it really helped with that problem. I agree with Tom that if you don't pretty much like the amp you've got, you may not get much out of the mod. Just curious, have you tried any rivera amps? They get a very nice clean tone, and they take pedals like almost no other amp I've tried.
Kurt

[crash]

Gotta echo Tom - mods won't make it a different amp.

I have a Weber and a Cannabis Rex in my Deville 2x12. Changing the speakers was a huge change for the better. But, I liked the amp in the first place. Great punchy cleans, and the upgraded speakers really made it speak more clearly.

I also sometimes run it on Yellow Jackets with EL84s for an AC15 type of feel - that does make it sound like a different amp. I'm not sure if that would get you where you want to go with the DRRI though.

My concern would be if you throw $200-300 at the amp, and it still doesn't do it for you, and you go to sell it, would you get that much more for it?

[guitarzan]

My concern would be if you throw $200-300 at the amp, and it still doesn't do it for you, and you go to sell it, would you get that much more for it?

This was my initial concern when I first read the post. I think that's a $200 or $300 better spent as the seed money for a different amp. It's a lot of money to chase a cat up a tree...

[Casper]

Well, Good arguements all. I think I'll keep looking a bit and just sell the Deluxe. At least I know it isn't doing it for me...that's a start. Guitzan is right, I have the tilt legs and a custom cover for it and I still will take a bath probably, no use adding to the bathwater. I do have a prospect on a buyer...will let you guys know ..thank you all..

Shaun

[dannopelli]

Before you go off the deep end might I suggest you spend $50 and change all the preamp 12AX7's from Russian to Chinese. Makes a much warmer sound. And if you don't like it, no loss. You can always use the tubes in your next amp.

I know a lot of guys that try the JJ thing with out a lot of luck. To my ear Chinese tubes are mellower and smoother. They do not last as long, only concern.

[Janine Doubly]

While I am not a true amp tech, this is what I do know about Deluxe Reverbs vintage, re-issues and the differences between the two. It may shed some light on why people mod them and the benefits of such mods.

Originally, the blackface Deluxe Reverbs (not the non-reverb BF models which are a different animal altogether) ran 6V6 power tubes at a very high plate voltage. The plate voltage Fender used was actually way beyond the spec of what a 6V6 was capable of running according to what the tube manuals RCA and others published at the time specified. But, Leo Fender and the players he had testing his amps liked the sound of the 6V6's running hot so much, he broke published "specs" and installed 6V6's anyway. Fortunately, back in the 60's, the RCA 6V6's Fender used could take this "out of spec" punishment and its part of the reason why the BF Deluxe Reverbs sounds so good; Its the sound of 6V6's being run hard. When Fender re-issued the BF Deluxe Reverb, they needed to offer an amp that stayed stable using currently made 6V6's, which DON'T run as well at high plate voltage, so Fender modified the circuit, mostly in the power section and transformers to run at a much lower plate voltage without blowing power tubes all the time. Unfortunately, this is one of the key points to get right to make the amp sound and perform like a real BF Deluxe Reverb. This is why many guys have Mojotone, Mercury Magnetics, Heybor, etc. "vintage spec" trannies put into their RI Deluxe Reverb's to have the power tubes run at a more vintage correct plate voltage. Sure they go through tubes much faster, but they feel the tone is worth it. Speaker choices, pre-amp tubes, bright cap mods, etc. can make slight changes in the voice of the RI Deluxe Reverbs, but without actually changing the guts of the power section, the re-issue is a fundamentally different amp than real BF Deluxe Reverbs. Its like having a smaller, modern V8 engine in an early 70's muscle car. The stock re-issues have less horsepower than the old ones. Thankfully, the new JJ and EH 6V6's can take the higher plate voltages the old BF Deluxes would throw at them, so the tranny mods are worth looking into if that is the sound you are after. You can use the JJ's at a pretty high voltage without major malfunctions and many guys with real Deluxe Reverbs use both JJ's or EH's because they are the only currently made 6V6's that can hang in that older circuit without burning up.

I have personally played a few of these "modded" RI Deluxe Reverb amps. And depending on who does the mod, they can be quite good and much more like the real deal. I think a big part of why the stock RI Deluxe Reverb gets so "fizzy" with pedals is the lack of "cajones" in the power section. When 6V6's run hot, they are VERY harmonically rich, thus providing a more ear friendly tonal palette to build upon with pedals. The stock RI Deluxe Reverb just doesn't offer as much in the way of midrange harmonics AND dynamic range when pushed, due to the weaker power section, as an old BF Deluxe does, thus the bright cap, makes the amp a little overbearing on the top end in the RI's.

My $0.02's.

[Casper]

Thats quite a dissertation Janine, I appreciate the insight. I have learned much these past weeks about tubes, older amps and boutiques. I think I am just going to put my trusty ol Classic 30 back on the road for awhile until I can relax about the decision weather to mod or sell. I wish I wasn't so impulsive, I have let many good axes and equip go this way. Hopefuly, I have learned something here. Thank you all again.

Shaun

[coaltrain]

I have had lots of different tube amps, mostly Fender and one Peavey classic 50x410. I went with JJ Eurotubes to try and help out the Peavey and what he sent me made it a better but it was not what I was looking for. I went and purchased a Bad Cat Cub IIR and have been in love ever since, it sounds great with my DTC w/ 3 M pickups. I really like using a Keeley modded TS-808 for an overdrive.

Jeff