effects loops

[tom]

ok, since the wonderful experience with the egnater doing the gain instead of pedals, i have a loop application question.
i am missing being able to use a volume pedal to lower the level without loosing the gain(that i used to get from pedals before the volume pedal). i tried a volume pedal in the series loop, and the taper was not so good. also have been thinking about putting the delay in the parallel loop since the gain is now coming from the amp. anyone have opinions about delay in series vs. parallel loop? if i could use the delay with a vol pedal after it in the series loop i might get both my problems solved. i don't really want to use both loops as it seems like a lot of wires running back and forth. whadayathink?

[GaryMcT]

Might want to check with Bruce Egnater and see if the mod50 has an out of audio circuit external volume control. The randall versiob does, and I hear it does well with one of the passive smaller ernie ball volume pedals.

[Stys]

When I was playing out, I used my tc G-major through the loop of the VHT Pitbull I had. This amp allowed you to choose between series or parallel. When using series, the guys in the band compared the distorted tones to a transistor radio. Using the parallel loop, the delays were transparent and clean.

I prefer delay with a parallel loop but so many players I work with prefer a series loop.

Since the band I played in was way to loud (darn drummers!!!), I never used a volume pedal - the guitar was wide open (darn cymbals!!).

[John Price]

Hello Tom!
My amp has a series loop, and this is were I insert my delay pedal! Sounds great with no coloration. When you run the loop in series, your signal goes directly from the preamp through your effects unit and then into the poweramp. running it this way may color your tone but seems to sound great with my DD-20. Running the loop in parallel allows a dry/uneffected signal to be mixed with an effected signal by using the mix control (should be one!) on the amp. This allows you to blend the effects into your sound. I like this one when it's available for having the control to mix both signals together. The parallel probably won't work for your application when it comes to the volume pedal....:(
Are you trying to get the amp to drop in volume without losing gain? I'm not sure putting the volume pedal in the loop would be a good thing for a tubed amp?!?!?!
I'll keep thinking!......

John

[Yngve]

I used a G-major in series loop with my Marshall TSL100 (and other amps) for both delay and master volume. The G-major and other multi-fx units might sound bad with parallell loops because of phasing problems. Usually the multi-fx units have a dry/wet function that acts as a parallell mix without the phasing problems when you run the fx-unit in series.

You can also use an expression pedal either via midi or analog to have real time control over the master volume of the G-major. This can be set before or after effects like reverb, delay etc.

I used this setup with a GCX and a Ground Control with expression pedal, and I think it's very versatile and sounds good. Also, the G-major isn't expensive, but I'm sure other more high-end stuff would have all of the above funtions, and then some.

[kurt1981]

Hey tom, I found that, for just using a delay, I liked a parallel loop, but for your volume pedal question, I think series is the way to go. I've also found that the ernie ball volume pedals are pretty good, but lose a bit of highs if they're not wide open. It's subtle, but it's there. I've found that the goodrich pedals are the absolute best for no high end loss, they're pricey, but well worth the cost.
Hope this helps,
Kurt

[tom]

sounds like my fears are confirmed. to do what i really want i would have to use both loops. i guess i'll just try the delay in the parallel loop and leave one gain pedal on the board for when i need low volume high gain. thanks for all the input.

[ckofahl]

Tom,

I use a gt-8 in the loop of my vht. The loop is set to series and I have no issues with maintaining the gain. I've not tried separate volume pedal, but it allows me to have the characteristic of the amp and then adjust the volume with the expression pedal on the gt8, it also let's the volume pedal when off keep the amp dead quiet.

[entraind]

Tom, I use a Visual Sound Visual Volume pedal in a loop with my gain pedals in order to have control over my gain sound so I can have the pedal cranked and have control over the volume after the gain pedal. This also enables me
to get gradations of clean/dirty by turning my Atom volume down and turning the Volume pedal up.

This pedal has a buffer onboard which you can turn on and off and does not roll off tone like an Ernie Ball VP does. It also has indicator lights on the side telling you where you are in the sweep of the pedal. They are about 140 new.

I play through a fairly clean amp so I don't use it in the EFX loop but I would imagine that it would work for that application.

http://www.visualsound.net/Pedal_vv.htm

[tom]

i was using the eb pedal after my gain pedals in front of the amp, and that worked nicely to get high gain with the vol pedal turned down. my problem now is i am getting the gain from the amp so there is no way to lower the volume( for a softer part of a song) and keep the gain up.

[Stys]

I was looking through the manuals of various Boogie products and Boogie states that when you use processing through a series loop, it is important that a high quality FX unit is used from a reputable company. Boogie further adds that the loop insert in series is at the heart of the amp.

Thank you, Yngve, for pointing out phasing problems. I could not quite pinpoint what I was hearing until I read your post. I was describing the sound to others as if a bit of tone is in a tunnel......

[entraind]

i was using the eb pedal after my gain pedals in front of the amp, and that worked nicely to get high gain with the vol pedal turned down. my problem now is i am getting the gain from the amp so there is no way to lower the volume( for a softer part of a song) and keep the gain up.

Ah, I misunderstood, I thought you were looking for a volume pedal to put in the effects loop in order to have volume control post gain...

[tom]

that is half of what i am looking for. the delay is a separate issue. when i put the eb pedal in the series loop, everything happened at one end of the pedal sweep, like an impedance mismatch.

[njjessee]

Not being able to control volume without effecting gain is why I use overdrive and distrotion pedals into a clean amp. My delay is always after the drive pedals.

I did see Johnny A. live once and he used his Marshall's gain channels for overdriven tones. He placed delay and all other effects before the amps. I never really thought of this as an option, but his tones were really really good even though the effects were placed before the gain channel. He had no drive pedals. Nothing in the loops.

I actually was able to ask him about it and he simply said it was a straight forward set up with no secrets. Of course his tone spoke for itself.

Noah

[GaryMcT]

that is half of what i am looking for. the delay is a separate issue. when i put the eb pedal in the series loop, everything happened at one end of the pedal sweep, like an impedance mismatch.

Ah, seems like you need a volume pedal that is specifically designed for line-level signals.

[Janine Doubly]

Ernie Ball makes two different impedence volume pedals. I use the low impedence model in the effects loop on my LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI on my acoustic rig. The taper is more linear and the tone doesn't suck. You might try that model if using it in an effects loop on your electric rig. Also, I think Boss's new volume pedals come in high and low impedence models. They seem to be pretty nice.

[Ray K.]

Also, I think Boss's new volume pedals come in high and low impedence models. They seem to be pretty nice.
Yes, I use the Boss volume pedals. I had an Ernie Ball for many years, but decided to lighten my load. The FV50L (or H) is mostly all plastic and lighter in weight on my pedalboard. They are still pretty rugged, considering.

Boss has come out with all metal versions though. FV500L (or H).

Ray K.

[John Price]

Tom,
I was able to talk to some players in my circle and I found that some of them are having great success running the volume pedal in the series loop! This does allow them to turn down the volume without losing the gain structure of the amp! And they all used the EB volume pedal.........

JP.....

[Suriel Zayas]

tom,

i just did an amp show for bruce today and picked his brain about it. your fears have been confirmed, you have to run the vp in the series loop and your other pedals in the parallel loop. less gain pedals on the board, but a whole lot more cables. i didn't have any pedals at the show today, but when i got home i tried it. at first, there was something weird happening with the volume taper on the vp, but i rewired everything and it sounded normal. now the vp acts like a master volume, allowing you full gain at low volume. now the amp acts just like my pedalboard, as i always keep the vp at the end of chain.