Help me with my tone please,

[kurt1981]

Hey guys, I'm using a mesa lonestar clasic combo, and all three xotic pedals. I'm having trouble getting a tone that's not overly midrangy, expecially in the low mids, something the lonestar has plenty of. I'm wondering if maybe I need to look at a new overdrive, something a bit less thick, but I'm not sure. I really want to get that sort of fuchs type overdrive, it has plenty of mids, but it's not muddy. I think the AC booster is close, but it seems to just be too mjuch in the low mids.
For reference, I use a 335 and two andersons, a clasic with SSS pickups and a droptop T with HSH.
Thanks guys,
Kurt

[tom]

this may seem too simple, but here's a shot.
are you happy with the clean tone with no pedals on? if not, try eqing with the bridge pickup on so it's pleasing to you. make sure to try pulling the the mid knob back some and not pushing the bass or treble to an extreme. then make sure you don't have too much bottom on the pedal's eq. i don't personally have the xotic's so maybe someone can chime in on how their eq works.

[ckofahl]

Two things to try. First follow Tom's suggestion. Get a clean tone that you are happy with. The xotic peddals are in what order? I have the rc and bb. The way that I run them is to have the rc first. I use it to fatten up the sound just a bit and push the amp. Then I use the bb with the gain down and set volume so that it jumps the signal just a bit more like a clean boost with just a bit of grissel. The eq on the xotics are so that when you run the eq at the detent, the tone out is equal to the tone coming in. I bring the gain on the bb up to the level that I feel is not overly compressed and adjust the tone depending on the situation and room. I run the rc on all the time. I'm not familiar with the Lonestar, but on the lead channel try adjusting it so that there is some slight breakup, turn the rc on and see how the rc boost the signal. The xotics have a wide range of tone available. I've not tried the ac, but I understand that it is inbetween the rc and the bb.

[mbrown3]

These are all good suggestions. The tone control on the Xotic pedals, in my experience, makes a HUGE difference in the tone I get. Getting a basic clean tone first is paramount, set the volume at unity on the pedals, set the drive to where you think you'll want it, and then start working the tone knobs. You may find you need to adjust the drive (and maybe even volume) as you start adjusting the tone knobs. If you have a guitar that is pretty mid-rangy itself, I would dial some of that out at the amp, but then your clean tone may suffer a bit. It's odd that you wouldn't experience the significant mids with the clean, but would with the pedal. The AC gets me very close to the Fuchs type sound and I don't have any problems with mids being too prevalent. My guess is that if there's too much mids with the pedals engaged, there's likely too much mids without them on (sometimes it's hard to tell where the bump in mids are with clean tone). Maybe try an EQ unit/pedal to dial in the tone you want, then compare the clean tone to the tone with the pedals on.

[entraind]

All the suggestions offered above are right on the mark, definitely try everything they have recommended.

I have a Lonestar Classic and I love the tone I get out of Channel 1 with my Atom (m,m,H2) and my Classic (Va, Va, H01). I've always been happier with my OD from pedals than what I get from channel 2 so I use channel two as a clone channel with different EQ/verb etc, depending on the room we're in.

LSC's are very bassy and midrange heavy amps, I happen to like that but they definitely aren't for everyone. If you are happy with your clean tone but not your OD you may want to use Channel 2 as a platform for your pedals and EQ it to taste.

Experiment with turning off the bass and midrange and turning the gain knob up to about 5 and the channel volume b/t 5-7, then then bring up the bass to taste and get the midrange from your OD pedals of choice.

As for pedals I haven't played the Xotic pedals so I can't comment on those. The other guitarist in my band plays a Fuchs ODS and I've gotten a very convincing Fuchs-like tone using the LSC with a Lovepedal Eternity being driven by a Lovepedal COT blue, both with the gain way down. Another pedal that does this tone well is the Barber Small Fry the manual even has suggested "Dumble" settings, make sure you play with the internal trimmers on this one as it is a very tweekable pedal and it is pretty congested in the mids out of the box. Also the Zendrive nails this tone as well, but they aren't cheap nowadays so you're probably better off with the Barber or Lovepedals....

[kurt1981]

Wow, thanks guys, this is great. I run the Rc, into BB into AC boosters, never all at once, but usually for leads I have the RC boosting one of the others. I run my amp's tone controls like this, treb around 6 or 7, mids close to that, and bass on around 3 or so, the gain is around half. I'm up and down on my basic cleans, sometimes I love them, and sometimes I think it's too much mids. I like a sparkle in my cleans, but that usually makes the overdrives sound kind of buzzy, so I just wish there was a middle ground somehow. Any other help would be great, also where do you guys set the presence on the lonestar?
Thanks again,
Kurt

[ckofahl]

It's been said that the Lonestar has no shortage of mids, with that in mind, running the mids to 6or 7 seems like you might want to start there, especially if the tone that you're hearing is a bit too much in the mids.

[kurt1981]

Hey guys, I've been messing around with turning the bass off, and running the mids a lot lower, around 4 or so. It's kind of counter-intuitive but it seems to help. Now, I've got it sounding good with singlecoils but humbuckers still sound a bit weird with overdrive, and I'm not sure why.
Thanks, this thread has really helped me out a lot, keep 'em comming!
Kurt

[entraind]

Glad you are starting to get it dialed in. For adjusting the presence I would turn the bass mids and presence off and dial it in with treble, gain and channel, and master volume at 5 if it's too dull add presence to taste. I like mine around 9:00. Then add mids and bass to fill out the sound and adjust the master. Also the verb settings can change alot between the bright and dark settings.

Are you having problems using the amp OD (channel 2) or pedal OD?

If it's the amp OD, I understand. I've never been happy with the amp OD so I dont' use it. If it's a pedal you may want to try a different pedal.

Many OD's are built around the tube screamer model and are designed to give some midrange girth to Fender-style amps. As you have already found, these amps don't need more midrange, so sometimes just boosting the signal and hitting the amp harder with a clean boost or an EQ pedal or using an OD without a big midrange hump like the ones I mentioned above (Also the Zvex Box of Rock is a good one for this application as it has a boost and an OD section) will do the trick.

[FFOGG]

I've got it sounding good with singlecoils but humbuckers still sound a bit weird with overdrive, and I'm not sure why.


I have been going through this w/ my Lone Star Special and my Les Paul Cloud 9 .My single coil Classic and Hollow T Classic sound great but I have yet to find a truly useable sound w/ my Cloud 9 .I have been uing OCD and Love Pedals still to no avail .You might try the Boogie Board but you may find that [as I did ] that these Amps are simply nmuch better w/ single coils than humbucker guitars .Great thread though !!!!!

I came to the conclusion that I need a differeb=nt amp for the hb guitars wh/I have not found yet .

[kurt1981]

Thanks guys, I was kind of afraid of that, the amp may not work with humbuckers, but I just have to figure something out, I switch guitars quite a bit during an average set. I don't use the gain channel at all either, just not my cup of tea as far as overdrives go. iI really need to pick up anothe zendrive, I think selling that was a huge mistake, but now they're astronomical prices!!
Thanks so much guys, keep me posted if you have any other ideas.
God bless,
Kurt

[FFOGG]

I am working w/ a Woodrow and my Les Paul trying to get a good sound ...its close to early ZZ Topp if thats what you are looking for

[kurt1981]

Hey, I forgot to mention, the humbucker tone I'm after is the Robben ford type of tone, nice and fat, not too much gain, but enough to get that nice bloom and sustain. The hard part is, I'm not able to see, so I can't even read the suggested settings in the amp's manual.
Thanks again everyone,
Kurt

[John Price]

Hello Kurt,
I have the Lonestar amp and use these settings! Try them out if you like!!!

Channel 1: Gain at 1:00 / Treble 1:00 / Mids 10:30 / Bass 11:00 / Presence 1:00 100 watt setting.
Channel 2: Drive 2:00 / Gain 2:00 / Treble 1:00 / Mids 11:00 / Bass 9:00 / Presence 1:00 50 watt setting....I like to go into the Tweed setting as well!....
I also use the Xotics but in a different order than others mentioned..I run the BB first / into the AC / into the RC.... I like the RC to boost everything at the end....
Some things I find with this amp is not to run the bass to high in the drive setting and I find that if I run the gains to high it loses all it's character.

Happy Playing!!!
JP....

[kurt1981]

Hey thanks John, how do you set your xotic pedals? I may try moving things arond, that might help. I had the amp sounding good in my practice space, but at my gig last night, the new settings sounded boxy. I just can't seem to nail down what I want.
Thanks,
kurt

[tom]

practice or all by myself tones are always too dark and smooth for a band situation. sound guys were always saying "can you give me some more treble?" i think i've finally learned to set things right before hand now. if it sounds a little edgy and rough, it's probably going to be great with the band.
a short story. years ago we took some guitars to the eagles before the hell freezes over tour. we heard joe playing all by himself, a tele through a dr z. it was the harshest nastiest tele tone ever. sounded great when the rest of the band played along.

[kurt1981]

Hey tom, thanks, that really sums it all up. I did a rehearsal tonight with a new band, and everyone commented on how great my tone was, even though I was pissed off the whole night about how it sounded. I guess it's all relative, and you have to make the best of it.
Thanks,
Kurt

[olectric]

practice or all by myself tones are always too dark and smooth for a band situation. ...we heard joe playing all by himself, a tele through a dr z. it was the harshest nastiest tele tone ever. sounded great when the rest of the band played along.

i hear ya. i have become a fan of brighter guitar tones lately as well. everything has its place in the mix, and a fat-bottomed guitar can sound farty and muddy with the bass and kick in there.

i guess i haven't been changing my eq really...just started playing brighter amps (gabriels) vs. smoother amps (old fenders). i used to only use the gabriel in the studio, but now i can't get enough of it in a live setting as well. it's strange...the gabriels are the fattest el84 amps out there in my opinion, but they cut right through the mix in a really sweet way. they just boost all the right frequencies, i guess. :cool:

[entraind]

This is a bit off topic but one of the things I love about the Atom with M's is that I can have a fat rich tone and still be heard over the band, so much girth!

[LonestarGtr]

+1 on the brighter amp thing. I've been using ear monitors on and off for so long and I usually face my speakers away from me. I eq the amps/pedals so it sounds good in the ear monitors and then when I step around to my speakers I think, "dang, that's not too bright?" I guess it's not. Almost every night I ask our foh engineer and he says most of the time that he's got my channels flat with no eq. A lot of times in small venues there are all sorts of ways that lows and mids can build up and make everything sound muddy. So from that standpoint, it's always nice to have someone come up and say that your tone was great because it probably didn't sound that way from where you were standing. I guess we just set it as close as we can so that we're happy with it and then try to play our tails off. And this may be just my take on things, but when guitar tone is too "perfect" I think peoples' ears kinda tune it out. Sometimes those extra mids or overtones or being too bright IS the sound that makes it stick out and sound interesting as long as peoples' eardrums aren't bursting.

[tom]

nicely said.

[John Price]

Hey Kurt,
My BB is set like this!
Bass and Treble 12:00 Gain goes between 9:00 and 12:00 depending on what guitar I use. The volume seems to stay around 1:00
AC booster: Treble 1:00 and Bass between 11:00 and 12:00 the gain is at 9:00 volume at 12:00 I call this the FAT pedal........
RC booster has similar settings to the BB with the bass and treble at 12:00 my gain and volume at 11:00

Happy Playing!
John....

[kurt1981]

Thanks a bunch John, I'll try those out tonight, and see how they sound. Tom, I think you've got something there, what often sounds like crap on stage is great in the house. I guess it's a game of compromise all around. Thanks guys, and if anything comes to mind, please let me know.
Oh, one more question, has anyone run el34's in the lonestar? I'm wondering what this would do to my cleans, I never even turn on the drive channel.
Thanks,
Kurt

[olectric]

+1 on the brighter amp thing.

yay, i'm not the only one! some of the guys i play out with give me a hard time because they think that my tone is too bright or not thick enough. but, FOH guys and random people from the crowd are always asking me what amp i'm using.

mike let me play through his rig for a few minutes the other day. i was AMAZED. :D but seriously, it sounded killer. the p90 cobra/nobels/d13 amp combo was very gas-inducing.

[John Price]

Kurt! I did of course!

The 6L6 setting gave me the best clean sound! True character of this tube! usually has a nice airy low end and sparkling highs less peaky! The EL34's are tight and punchy and seem to have less bottom end! but also seem to have a brighter peak to them!....I think the 6L6 has a bigger harmonic (Frequency) spectrum that allows it to breathe! The EL34 has a great distortion tone that cuts! I love to use both tubes and that's why I use the Stiletto along with my LoneStar......

John.......

[kurt1981]

Hey guys, I'm still working on this, and I'm kind of worried, I seem to have to run the volume up around 7 or so, just in smaller gigs, if I lower the mids and bass to almost nothing. Not to mention, the gain is on about 6 or so. I guess it's just strange, after never running the master above 5 and the gain above 4 that I just feel like maybe I'm doing something wrong. I still want to check out some el34's, just to see what they do to the amp, and I'm thinking of checking out some other overdrives as well. Where does everyone else find themselves setting volume and gain on typical gigs? I feel like with these new settings, I may be putting stress on the tubes, running the output higher.
Thanks, and sorry to seem like an ideot, I just worry about these things.
Kurt

[entraind]

Your tubes should be fine. That's about where I run my master (1-2:00) depending on the stage volume. The question is do you like the tone with those settings? If so, you're set. If not start gradually tweeking the knobs in very small increments, they are very effective and interactive...

If you feel you have too much gain and you want your tone cleaner but at the same volume you can go to 100 watt mode or turn on the EFX loop ("loop in" switch in the back) and give the send knob in the back a turn toward the plus side, with nothing in the EFX loop this will turn up your volume after the preamp section...As you've turned up the gain experiment with turning down the 'verb (if you use it) also and this will help you cut through the mix better.

[kurt1981]

Well, I actually thought of the loop last night, and tried it out for the first time, only to discover that I have no sound, even if I turn up the loop level knob and the solo/master knobs on the front. Could this be a bad 12ax7, in the loop stage, or something else. i guess I never tried the loop since I much, I just liked the more pure sound of the amp without it. I swear, I'm not as much of an amateur as I seem to be,
Kurt

[John Price]

Kurt,
Make sure your now using the master output jack next to the solo knob and the mix on the back is set around 12:00!..Still nothing?
Then try inserting a cable into the effects loop if you have a delay pedal try that in the loop! if you get a signal then it's OK! I've seen a few boogie LS amps with dirty send and return jacks that shut you down with complete silence thinking that you just blew something! It happened to me!....you just might need to spray some contact cleaner preferably DeoxIt onto a 1/4" jack and insert it a few times into both jacks...This should clean them out and your ready to go!.....


Keep us posted......John......

[kurt1981]

Hey guys, thanks for the tip, I cleaned the jacks out, and this seems to have fixed the problem, I'd have never considered that to be an issue. I went through and cleaned the whole thing, tube sockets especially made a huge difference, so well worth my time. I have another show this weekend, so I'll get a chance to try out some more settings, but dropping the bass and mids has really opened things up and given me a lot more room for expression.
Thanks so much,
Kurt