1X12 vs 2X12. Does it matter when close-mic'ing??

[riffmeister]

I'm considering taking one speaker out of my 2X12 combo (Savage Rohr 15, in case your interested) and repackaging it into a smaller cab. I want to lighten my load.

I always mic my cabinet at gigs. I position the mic near the edge of one speaker cone angled in to point at the dustcap. The mic is placed at the left side of the right-hand speaker so it is suspended near the center of the cabinet's grill cloth. Furthermore, I place a baffle in front of the speaker to keep sound from bleeding into mics and to keep anyone in the band or in the crowd from being right on axis.

Question: When close mic'ing one of a pair of speakers like this, do the benefits of a multi-speaker cab ever make it out of the house speakers??? It seems unlikely that it would make any appreciable difference in the house. But this belief is based purely on intuition. I have no data or direct experience.

To my ears, dual speakers give more chunkiness to the bass, a slight bump in overall SPL, slightly wider sound dispersion. I'm ready to give up these things in favor of a physically smaller and lighter amp.

But before I make or buy a new cabinet, I ask: can a SM57 pick up the diff between a 1X12 and 2X12?? What do you think?

[MapleGuitar]

...can a SM57 pick up the diff between a 1X12 and 2X12?My experience says "no" -- especially, close miked. Save your spine!
BTW, I also have a Savage Rohr 15. Great amp... a little noisy in the studio, but way fat tone.

[riffmeister]

Is your Rohr a 1X12, MapleGuitar? What speaker does it have?

My 2X12 combo is a humongeous cabinet. It's gotta be the heaviest 15 watts ever!!!! The Rohr is an immensely good gigging amp. It's super juicy.

[MapleGuitar]

Is your Rohr a 1X12, MapleGuitar? What speaker does it have? My 2X12 combo is a humongeous cabinet. It's gotta be the heaviest 15 watts ever!!!! The Rohr is an immensely good gigging amp. It's super juicy.I have the Rohr 15 head, which came with the Savage 2x12 cab. But I always use the Rohr head with a Dr Z 1x12 open back cab (Celestion G12H30).

[LonestarGtr]

+1 on saving your back.

Most mics, esp. 57's aren't going to pick up any discernable difference from 1-12 to 2-12 cabinets. My experience is to the contrary. When you're actually listening to 2-12 cabinets, your ears pick up the extra spl and the extra low end, but a small mic diaphragm on 1 speaker is really only picking up half of that so what you're hearing and what the mic is hearing are two different things. If you're mic'ing your amp at every gig, use the smallest best sounding box, imo. Even when I'm using my big rigs, I'm using a 1-12 bogner cube live and in the studio. At least in the studio you can actually mic the differences in multi speaker cabs with room mics, distance mics, etc, but live, it's moot. my thoughts.

Mike

[robert75354]

I think you've gotten some good feedback heres two more cents worth.

Amps & Cabs:
I think you have to ask yourself, "What rig am I happy with live?"
Does your tone, or your bands sound benefit from a bigger amp onstage, and do you really care, do you even need an amp?
It greatly depends on what you're trying to create onstage, as to which amp,guitar, or pedals you use, as well as mics and placement.
Your playing style, the type of music your playing, and the venue all play a part in what you will use and how you use it.


I faced your same dilemma a some years ago, all I ever used was a Twin, every gig, but I grew tired of lugging it, I switched to a 1x12 50watt combo for a few months, and the Twin quickly came back out.
Now I take the right gear for me and the gig, whatever will sound the best.

I knew some guys who would bring entire refrigerator racks and cabs to a club for 50ppl to hear them. I also saw Brent Mason bring a Strat and a Peavey Nashville 400 to the same club, he brought what was right for the gig and he sounded great, though he uses a Twin most every live gig now.

You're only going to be able play and hear for so long, so enjoy it everytime.
You are making a creative musical expression, make it your best everytime.

That's why you play an Anderson guitar, isn't it?

Mics and Placement:
I will always use the best mic/s, or DI box, and work with the sound engineer to make sure it's coming thru right. Shure 57's will never go away, and are good mics, but there are many more better sounding mics out today, if you can afford them.
In small clubs one mic (or no mic) is probably fine, alot of guys double mic 2x12 cabs on bigger stages in big venues, and always use 2 or 3 mics on an amp in the studio, two mics up close, and one mic about 3-4 ft away up 2-3 ft off the floor.

Hope this helps, good luck!

Robert

[riffmeister]

For those following this thread: I went to the Savage workshop and swapped my red 2X12 cab for a used 1X12 cab (in black n' white snakeskin tolex!!!).

Played a couple gigs with it over the weekend. Verdict: I made a good decision.

Because I use a baffle on stage, and in front of my amp with the speakers aimed at my ankles, I wasn't missing the advantages of a 2X12 wider dispersion. The loss of some low-end chunk was a non issue. The reduced weight and footprint make the switch worthwhile to me.

I made another adjustment to my baffle I'd like to share:

My baffle is home made from two panels of 1/8 inch (I think) particle board. The two panles are hinged together (this allows me to pack the baffle in my gear bag and allows it to stand up). I glued foam padding (the kind used in studios to dampen surfaces) to the amp side of the baffle. Onstage, the baffle sits in front of the amp like an open book standing upright. A mic can be positioned in the V formed by the two panels of the baffle.

I've been using this for over a year. Bandmates and soundmen really appreciate it. It minimizes the directionality of the speaker and prevents people in the band or in the audience from being on-axis with the speakers. The downside has always been that I miss a lot of the high frequencies which, being highly directional, don't radiate upward very much. I know they are there, but I don't get the pleasure of hearing them.

So I solved the problem by cutting a triangular piece of particle board that fits in the V of the folding baffle. It is wedged in so that it is at a 45 degree angle with the floor. This serves to reflect some of the sound upward. Big improvement.

In testing the system, I was surprised what a difference it makes. Standing in front of the amp like I do onstage, I had my wife change the angle of my new "reflector" while I played. There was a definite wah wah effect as she reflected more or less soundwaves upward. I'd say the range of EQ adjustment equates to about 35% of the sweep of my Anderson's tone knob.

So, I now play a 1X12 with a perfected baffle system. Everyone's happy. I will soon be getting an Eminence Wizard to replace the G12H30 that's in there now. I can't resist experimentation!

Did I mention my cab is snakeskin??!! :D

[Tremendo]

Cool post, good ideas. I'm on the other side. I've been using my 1x12 Mark III since I ordered it in 1989, currently with a Vintage 30. Before that mostly 2x12 amps. 3 years ago I added a 3/4 back Mesa 1x12 cabinet and have been blending both for live performance, always micing the 3/4 back. Last month I added a 4x12 Marshall 1960AHW (Hand wired, re-issue) cabinet. The tone is very different from my 3/4 back or the Boogie's 1x12. Killer sound, but I've yet to mic it for a gig (we don't gig too often). AND, I use IEM's, which voids the whole personal tone iddue a bit. So it's not for me so much, but the fullness of sound for my 3 piece band. The mic'd sound might not be too much different, and I will have to experiment with mic placement, but my rig just got bigger and heavier and hopefully fuller. :rolleyes:

[Barry]

I played through a Boogie Mark II-B 1X12 combo for years . Now I'm at the other end of the spectrum with a Road King head and a Stiletto head on a 4X12 traditional cab . Much happier now . Something magical about 4X12 cabs . I always struggled in bigger venues and outdoor gigs with one speaker .Even miced up. It depends on your application really . Obviously the single speaker is fine in the studio or smaller venues . At the end of the day it comes down to everyones situation is different so its not comparing apples to apples .

[riffmeister]

I'm still using the 1X12 and am pleased. I can now make a single trip from the car to the stage: One hand carries the amp, the other pulls the wheeled duffel with my accessories and the gig bag is strapped over a shoulder.

Tried the EMI Wizard. Good speaker. But I learned this is EMI's version of the G12H30 - which is what I was replacing. I find the speakers so similar I don't have a use for the Wizard!

[Barry]

I'm still using the 1X12 and am pleased. I can now make a single trip from the car to the stage: One hand carries the amp, the other pulls the wheeled duffel with my accessories and the gig bag is strapped over a shoulder.

Tried the EMI Wizard. Good speaker. But I learned this is EMI's version of the G12H30 - which is what I was replacing. I find the speakers so similar I don't have a use for the Wizard!
Very cool. Sounds you have your rig exactly to your liking . I suppose i'm fortunate in that im in a band that has truck that all the gear stays on so i dont have to bring it home . Its all in road boxes with casters as well . We all have different situations but sounds like you have a cool rig . As Roy would say "Happy Playing" .

[Tremendo]

Yeah, my deal is I have the PA here at my house. If I'm lugging all that stuff around anyway, no problem adding in a little bit more to get me a better sounding cabinet. Now if I was playing out 4 times a week, that would be different. ;)