how you use your powerbridge?

[tom]

fishman has stopped making the powerblend pedal. there are still some available out there, but they will be gone at some point. i have not been using mine since i switched to atoms only, so i have not investigated the alternatives. i know some of you have talked about the way you use the bridge, and i would like to have input on what works for you so we can offer those alternatives to prospective powerbridge buyers.
thanks in advance for your input. tom

[ToneLounge]

Powerblend here - it's not a permanent fixture on the pedalboard, but it's simple/conv. when needed.

I've also used a Taylor K4 with the powerbridge. It sounded great, but requires power and an additional volume pedal.

I'd like to try one of these:
http://www.rjmmusic.com/piezogizmo.html

[tom]

thats an interesting one. i emailed about availability and pricing. also asked about insert jacks for a vol pedal. we'll see. keep 'em coming.

[sylvanshine]

I've spoken about what I use here before, but here it is again...
http://www.loooper.com/TRSabyBlack.JPG

Built by David Boggs at www.loooper.com (http://www.loooper.com)

It's just a stereo input with an ABY that switches between ring/tip/both. Since I run into two amps, the volume and EQ is set at the amp.

[GaryMcT]

thats an interesting one. i emailed about availability and pricing. also asked about insert jacks for a vol pedal. we'll see. keep 'em coming.

I'm interested in hearing how this one compares to the powerblend since it's midi program controllable.

[Suriel Zayas]

i've been using this pedal built by ryan from www.pacificustompedals.com. it is the same as jay's, same dog different collar. i also have the powerbland, which i like because of the ultimate control. however, i am not fond of the size. i believe musicians friend still has a few powerblends in stock.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/surielz/aby1.jpg

[Suriel Zayas]

i believe musicians friend still has a few powerblends in stock.
musicians friend website is saying that they are currently out of stock, but they are due on 11/16.

[Suriel Zayas]

i'd like a volume control for the piezo, but certainly not at the expense of making the guitar surface or control section more cluttered. my .02

[Janine Doubly]

Although it is a rather arge piece and does not have the capabilities to blend mag with piezo, I have experiemented with the Fishman Aura when using a Power bridge. It does some pretty amazing things to get VERY close to a mic'd acoustic guitar. Does similar things to a Crowdster. Its only draw back is its size and lack of an effects loop. Hopefully Fishman will make a smaller Aura (Aura Jr.?) with an effects loop/aux. input to be able to patch in a delay or volume/blend pedal.

[korinabill]

I, myself, being the simpleton that I am, am not a big pedal user but I do use my Powerblend a lot in the church band. I have become quite used to the control of the electric-acoustic mixes, fade ins & outs with the pedal. I run through an AER Domino for the Fischman and an AC15 for electric. The Powerblend is a bit of a hassle to lug around, but I like the results. Unless Fischman is planning on replacing it with something else, I don't think they are making such a wise move.

[tom]

it's a decision based solely on volume. they were only selling about 50 per year. maybe this will open up a more compact solution.

[ToneLounge]

Hmmmm - this topic has got me thinkin'...

What are your top three must-have features for a peizo bridge interface/pedal?
What is the right price for a simple/elegant solution?
What was RIGHT about the Fishman Powerblend pedal?
What was WRONG with the PB pedal?

Maybe I can get another well-known manufacturer to step-up and offer a solution.

[dpeterson]

not external but this is what i have in my dt classic with piezo:

http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/images/ctrlx_header.jpg

http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/preamps_ctrlx.shtml

Ctrl-X is the first and only onboard mixer that will combine traditional passive magnetics with new-generation active electric guitar piezo bridge pickups, such as the powerful L.R. Baggs X-Bridge or T-Bridge. With the Ctrl-X, you can mix an active piezo electric guitar bridge with your magnetic pickups without active circuitry ruining the sound of your magnetics. The Ctrl-X combined with the X-Bridge will allow you to upgrade your Strat to the performance of state-of-the-art hybrid guitars at a fraction of the cost.

dave

[rjmmusic]

Hi all,

I'm the guy developing the Piezo Gizmo. The product is in the prototyping phase and has just gone through a revision to shake some of the bugs out. Hopefully it will be available in the next few months. Realistically, probably the 1Q 2004 timeframe.

I too would like to hear answers to ToneLounge's question: what do you require in a piezo preamp/pedal? Developing such a product is a balancing act between price, quality, features and size, and it's easier to do so with the input of potential users. I can't change the product drastically at this time, but there is some room for minor changes if they would make the product more useful.

How would you rank the importance of these features?

- Size
- Price
- Ability to blend magnetic and piezo on board
- XLR output (with ground lift)
- Volume pedal control for piezo level (and is an outboard expression pedal acceptable?)
- MIDI control
- Tone controls for piezo signal

Thanks! I take all input very seriously, so this is your chance to influence the design of the Piezo Gizmo!

Ron Menelli
RJM Music Technology, Inc.

[guitarzan]

Hmmmm - this topic has got me thinkin'...

What are your top three must-have features for a peizo bridge interface/pedal?
What is the right price for a simple/elegant solution?
What was RIGHT about the Fishman Powerblend pedal?
What was WRONG with the PB pedal?

Maybe I can get another well-known manufacturer to step-up and offer a solution.


so THIS is what it would feel like if God- on the second day of creation- looked down at us and said, "so what's next?"... :)

[GaryMcT]

Hi all,

I'm the guy developing the Piezo Gizmo. The product is in the prototyping phase and has just gone through a revision to shake some of the bugs out. Hopefully it will be available in the next few months. Realistically, probably the 1Q 2004 timeframe.

I too would like to hear answers to ToneLounge's question: what do you require in a piezo preamp/pedal? Developing such a product is a balancing act between price, quality, features and size, and it's easier to do so with the input of potential users. I can't change the product drastically at this time, but there is some room for minor changes if they would make the product more useful.

How would you rank the importance of these features?

- Size
- Price
- Ability to blend magnetic and piezo on board
- XLR output (with ground lift)
- Volume pedal control for piezo level (and is an outboard expression pedal acceptable?)
- MIDI control
- Tone controls for piezo signal

Thanks! I take all input very seriously, so this is your chance to influence the design of the Piezo Gizmo!

Ron Menelli
RJM Music Technology, Inc.

When you say MIDI control, do you mean just program control, or can you also control volume of either signal via a MIDI expression pedal?

[bud]

Hmmmm - this topic has got me thinkin'...

What are your top three must-have features for a peizo bridge interface/pedal?
What is the right price for a simple/elegant solution?
What was RIGHT about the Fishman Powerblend pedal?
What was WRONG with the PB pedal?

Maybe I can get another well-known manufacturer to step-up and offer a solution.

1)DI w/ Ground Lift
2)Optional Volume Ctrl Pedal (I find most of the time I need the thing on or off, not blended)
3)EQ - I would be fine with screw-driver adjustable pots to keep size to a minimum. It's pretty much set it and forget for me. I don't find myself change my PB Pedal settings at all.

Price - $150

PB pedal is completely reliable and full featured (it doesn't futz with your Electric tone). Accepts TRS in, which to me is more convenient than a Y cable.

PB drawbacks. Size, Weight, and I never have found it voiced quite as "pleasingly" as my former HDTC with X-bridge ctrl X combo. But the sound guy has never had an issue getting it to sound stellar.

[rjmmusic]

When you say MIDI control, do you mean just program control, or can you also control volume of either signal via a MIDI expression pedal?

Hi Gary (from the Egnater forum, right?)

Currently, it controls whether the magnetic or piezo signal are on or off. MIDI control of the piezo level is doable, but there would definitely be a time/cost consideration. I don't think I would consider control of the magnetic signal at this time because my goal is to alter the magnetic signal as little as possible.

[sylvanshine]

I guess if I had to design a pedal for me, it would be like the following:

MXR size
stereo in, 2 monos out
XLR out with ground lift
two stomp switches- magnetic on/off and piezo on/off
A piezo volume, on the side so you could set it and not hit it
A concentric tone knob for the piezo, bass on bottom, treble on top, again, on the side.

[GaryMcT]

Hi Gary (from the Egnater forum, right?)

Currently, it controls whether the magnetic or piezo signal are on or off. MIDI control of the piezo level is doable, but there would definitely be a time/cost consideration. I don't think I would consider control of the magnetic signal at this time because my goal is to alter the magnetic signal as little as possible.

Yeah, that's me!

That's fine. The two situations that I see myself in are:

1) I have an amp and a few pedals and the pedal that sylvanshine describes would be perfect (possibly with an input for a volume pedal for piezo volume control/mix control like the powerblend). I would rather keep the volume pedal as an optional addition.

2) I have the program-based midi setup, and I'd probably just use a switchblade to do all of the blending/mixing work with a trs to split cable plugged directly into the switchblade from the guitar.

Currently I'm in situation #1. #2 is a possibility in the future.

[tom]

jay, you don't want much eh? you sound like me wanting a great sounding amp the size of a cheerios box.

[Suriel Zayas]

I guess if I had to design a pedal for me, it would be like the following:

MXR size
stereo in, 2 monos out
XLR out with ground lift
two stomp switches- magnetic on/off and piezo on/off
A piezo volume, on the side so you could set it and not hit it
A concentric tone knob for the piezo, bass on bottom, treble on top, again, on the side.
jay, +1 on that!

[rjmmusic]

Thanks everybody, and keep it up! You're all giving me great ideas. Looks like small pedal size is a top priority. I think I have some ideas on how I can reduce the size, although somehow I don't think all that will fit in an MXR box! :eek:

[sylvanshine]

I guess I'm used to seeing a lot of stuff crammed in a small area. If my wife can fit three 5 lb+ babies inside...anything is possible!!!!!!!

[edwarddavis]

just my two cents but, I have andersons with both the power bridge and xbridge. I use the one with the x bridge because the controls are on the guitar. I thisnk Andersons are the best guitars made but the acoustic option is not, sorry. Why can you just go back and add a third control knob thats stacked for volume and treble like on a parker with a three way toggle like the older Parkers have I though that worked great. i have a Power Blend pedal and never use it or the powerbridge in my Andersons. Its to much of a hassle play out with it. Also this may sound dumb but how can fishman sell a acoustic bridge and have no real way of controling it?. I play a Parker p-36 and the had the stacked volume and treble and a 3-way switch for the fishman and I loved it for acoustic. The elecytic was so so but the acoustic was great. Love your guitars though just make the acoustic part better.
:D

[MapleGuitar]

edwarddavis quote about preferring the Xbridge "because the controls are on the guitar" is very insightful. This gets down to some basic interface principles, like giving users a sense of control (if the volume control isn't on the guitar, the output is much more difficult to control) and consistency (the volume for the regular pickup is on the guitar, but the volume of the piezo is not) and visibility (the system should keep the users informed through appropriate feedback -- I can glance at, or feel, my regular volume control to quickly know it's setting, but I can't do that with the PowerBridge).

[tom]

when we offered the x bridge, we heard , endlessly, and i mean endlessly, how no one wanted the extra knob and switch on the guitar. "it looks gross", "i looks stupid", "it ruins the look of the guitar" blah, blah blah. it also made retro fitting impossible unless you could stand to loose one of the only 2 knobs on the guitar and drill a hole throgh the top for the stereo/mono button.
fishman makes the power chip for the guitar. you loose the tone control. we did not care for the tone difference in the magnetic pickups with the buffer engged.
as for the controls on the guitar being easier, that's different for different people. i found it much easier to blend acoustic and electric on the fly with the pedal than trying to turn 2 knobs on the guitar while trying to play. some like pedals, some like programmed systems, it's what you like. the main point of this post was to find out what you like.
we probably do as many retro fits as original installs, so an offboard solution for that alone is worth the effort.

[guitarzan]

when we offered the x bridge, we heard , endlessly, and i mean endlessly, how no one wanted the extra knob and switch on the guitar. "it looks gross", "i looks stupid", "it ruins the look of the guitar" blah, blah blah. it also made retro fitting impossible unless you could stand to loose one of the only 2 knobs on the guitar and drill a hole throgh the top for the stereo/mono button.
fishman makes the power chip for the guitar. you loose the tone control. we did not care for the tone difference in the magnetic pickups with the buffer engged.
as for the controls on the guitar being easier, that's different for different people. i found it much easier to blend acoustic and electric on the fly with the pedal than trying to turn 2 knobs on the guitar while trying to play. some like pedals, some like programmed systems, it's what you like. the main point of this post was to find out what you like.
we probably do as many retro fits as original installs, so an offboard solution for that alone is worth the effort.


My vote goes to the PowerBlend any day of the week. I already feel like I don't wanna take away my right hand to switch pups and ride the tone control. And part of my rationale for rolling in the acoustic bridge (or... blending it?) is to add it in during parts that need another layer. To me, it only make sense to actually be playing while I'm doing this. And I wouldn't want to strum, turn a little, strum, turn a little, strum, turn a little, etc. And I'd have to +1 anyone who said they didn't want an extra knob, extra hole punched in the top, etc. The PB pedal maintains the integrity of the aesthetics of the guitar as well. My Fishman bridge is like my secret weapon!!!

MY question is, how do you keep a modest-sized rig, and still have the extra gear to utilize the power of the piezo bridge? I'm not a fan of going into the house with it, because then a sound guy gets to dictate what ratio of electric:acoustic there is when I'm layering. And that becomes a larger issue as I am a sideman and see different sound guys everywhere I go. I'd like to be able to carry an acoustic amp, but that means an extra mic, an extra trip to gear-mobile, and a pretty large rig to set up on stage when I'm concentrating on fitting in. Does someone make a (good) amp that offers electric and acoustic amplification?

[Suriel Zayas]

Does someone make a (good) amp that offers electric and acoustic amplification?
he's on the prowl again, ah..(sniff, sniff) the smell of a freshly opend box and stirofoam. (he drools uncontrolably) and out comes a brand spanking new dual-purpose electric/acoustic amp. TIME TO CALL THE SPONSOR!!!!!

[tom]

the needs are so different that i don't think we'll ever see both in something we could move without a forklift. we all know what it takes for a great tube amp electric tone. the acoustic part needs tons of clean power and full range speakers in a box that can do them justice. i have run a great full range cab with a tube head and it did sound very nice for the acoustic.

[guitarzan]

he's on the prowl again, ah..(sniff, sniff) the smell of a freshly opend box and stirofoam. (he drools uncontrolably) and out comes a brand spanking new dual-purpose electric/acoustic amp. TIME TO CALL THE SPONSOR!!!!!



Who, me? ;)

[sylvanshine]

If I had to run my PowerBridge through my regular amp, I think I would look into getting an acoustic similator (like the Boss) or an acoustic preamp of some type. I hated what the Boss pedal did to my magnetic pickups, but haven't experimented with how a piezo into it sounds.

For me, one amp isn't an option because I like the two amp setup. Just something great about acoustic tones with some greasy distortion mixed in to taste.

[bluesman69]

I use the Fishman Aura with mine and it is awesome!!!
Fishman Aura (http://www.fishmanaura.com/)

[GaryMcT]

If I had to run my PowerBridge through my regular amp, I think I would look into getting an acoustic similator (like the Boss) or an acoustic preamp of some type. I hated what the Boss pedal did to my magnetic pickups, but haven't experimented with how a piezo into it sounds.

For me, one amp isn't an option because I like the two amp setup. Just something great about acoustic tones with some greasy distortion mixed in to taste.

What amp do you use for your acoustic sound? I'm curious because I'm contemplating doing the same thing once my powerblend shows up.

[sylvanshine]

SWR California Blonde. You can see it in this live shot next to my Bogner. Just to the right of the pale, balding, slightly doughy guitar player.
http://www.sylvanshine.net/DanaHurGrlpic01.jpg

[GaryMcT]

I received a used PowerBlend pedal! Really great tone when mixed with a nice overdriven magnetic pickup sound! I think my bandmates are going to have a really hard time getting me to stop using this. :)

For those that use this the piezo pickup with a Mama Bear, does it work well to go through a PowerBlend and then into the Mama Bear, or is it best to split some other way before going into the Mama Bear?

[GaryMcT]

OK, I will also add that I will never think of a clean tone quiet the same again. Neck and middle SA through a Twin-ish amp along with the Piezo pickup through a full range setup sounds UNBELIEVABLE!! I may be ruined now.

[mbrown3]

To me, the issue isn't the pedal as much as the bridge. I hated the PowerBridge. It sounded sterile and, to me, less acoustic than other piezo bridges. I did prefer the outboard control, though. I've heard great things about RMC pickups, but haven't tried one myself. http://www.rmcpickup.com/

[MDWood]

Hello Tom, looks like I might be weighing in a little late on this one--hopefully not. Next month I plan to order my third TA guitar. All of my TA guitars have the powerbridge and I hope one will be available for TAG3 :). In my situation, we have two guitarists in each of our four P&W bands. If/when a "wing-man" is out, the piezo is extremely useful for an "acoustic" sound--especially during the verses then add magnetics to chorus for dynamics. I use a "Y" stereo cable out with magnetic signal through pedal board to volume pedal, to Mesa Boogie Stiletto amp, to back-room Bogner 2x12 cabnet (Sennheizer 609 microphone), to sound board. Piezo signal goes through Yamaha AG Stomp Box, to volume pedal, to house system. The AG Stomp Box helps to warm the piezo signal and provides greater depth of adjustment for tone. Sound tech must promise to leave board settings flat and allow tone control from stage!!! Unfortunately, traveling requires two amps for best sound and less speaker over-ride with both signals. Yes, it is a pain but I keep telling myself: "No Pain, No Gain!" (I have put myself through much worse in the quest for tone--I am a troubled man). Rivera Sedona came the closest for combined electric-acoustic sound capabilities; however, not close enough for my needs (and is extremely heavy). I also own Parker Fly Classic (active Fishman) and Godin SA (with active bridge transducer). Batteries can be a hassle and remembering to unplug cable from guitar between sets to preserve battery life is a downer. I never use the piezo volume and/or tone control knobs on these guitars. Although Godin seems to have the best acoustic sound capability, it does not have the magnetic tone/electronics/workmanship of the TA--which is why I "need" TAG3 with Powerbridge. Thanks for asking for our opinions.

[tom]

we have enough powerbridges to make it through this year probably. chrome hardtails will be the first thing we run out of. trems of both color should last thenyear.

[mbrown3]

Any ideas what you'll do after that?

[tom]

still looking. all other options involve on board electronics. hate the idea of that.

[mbrown3]

Yeah, I hear you...too much chance for coloration of the magnetic tone, plus too many knobs. Well, maybe you can get someone to work with you on designing something (like, has Pigtail done a piezo?)...

[FFOGG]

" I use the Fishman Aura with mine and it is awesome!!!




Bluesman : So you are running through the Powerblend pedal into the Aura and out o an Acoustic amp ????What setting are you using on the Aura ??

[tom]

we tried the fishman saddles in the pigtail bridge, but they change the tone of the electric pretty seriously. also they mess up the radius for us. we had saddles made to change the radius of the bridge so it matches our neck better.