Elixir strings noise

[funalij]

I want to share my strange experience with Elixir strings:

Recently I bough a TC with M1-M1-M3 from a forum member. When I pluggged into my amp, a strong noise (static) sounded, even when I touch strings. The vol and tone pot making static noise when i roll on/off too.
When I touched 6-5-4th strings the noise goes on (I couldn't do a gliss because noise was so strong when my fingers pass over frets), but touching the 3-2-1st the noise was only a little.

I sent a msg to Tom and after a couple of msg, he told me ... "the coating on them has some insulating properties. i have been using them for several years and what you are describing is never a problem for me" (honestly, I thought it was a bad tone pot)

I changed to D'addario strings ............the noise disappeared and tone and vol pot worked without problem.

I owned a TA classic with Elixir strings (I always use these strings in this guitar) that sounds very well, and I never had this problem with Elixirs.

Maybe, it was a bad set of elixir strings

Javier

[tom]

javier, i still don't see when that would be a problem in a playing situation. i'm never turning my tone control when i'm not holding the strings. also the problem is only on the wound strings.

[funalij]

javier, i still don't see when that would be a problem in a playing situation. i'm never turning my tone control when i'm not holding the strings. also the problem is only on the wound strings.
Tom, like you say the problem is only on the wound strings, but just image to play by 5th in the wound strings, I coudn't play anything with this noise.

When I gigged with my band, we play about 75 to 80 themes by night(5 hours playing), the most are rythm paterns (chords), so I will be carefully all time about noise if I don't touch strings.

Anyway, I have to be very carefully with this guitar, I notice if I move the wheel mouse of my computer it affects the noise (usually I swith off my computer), but no one of my others guitars has this problem (Jem 7PBK, LP, TA classic).

Don't get me wrong, I love the sound guitar, it has a cool tone, but seems receptive to static noise and I have to solve this problem (a friend of mine told me about shield pickups and controls with cooper sheet)

Javier

[killerburst]

Is your mouse wireless? If so, your hearing RF data bursts from the mouse.

Sounds like this guitar is particularly susceptible to RF for some reason. There's not really one specific cure for RF issues, and they only have a real chance of being solved "on location", as they are a combination of hardware and environment issues. Some console manufacturers have actually resorted to massive filtering on the front end, even to the point of limiting bandwidth. It can be a real nightmare. Try lifting the shield on your guitar cable at the guitar end. I use a ProCo Defender cable that uses two dual-lead conductors for the positive and negative phases, plus a 98% braid shield that is only terminated on the amp side. Seems to help.

Ultimately, you just have to create a barrier between your audio signal and the offending RF noise to the best of your ability. You have to look at every possible link in your signal path that could be allowing RF to get in and make sure it's as solid as can be.

[funalij]

No, I haven't any wireless system on my location. I made test without anything like the amp on.

I know if you don't touch any metal surface all guitar has a static noise (it's a physical law), but this one is specially receptived to static, and noise is greater (with difference) than my other guitars.

to change strings, helped to reduce the problem.

Tomorow I'll go to see a friend of mine (he has a Cobra, TA classic, 3 differentes Tyler,.... a lot of guitars) and I will compare side by side in other location and I will post my experience.

Javier

[killerburst]

Just to clarify- Your mouse is connected to the computer with a cord?

[funalij]

Just to clarify- Your mouse is connected to the computer with a cord?
yes,

I was thinking about, you know in Europe we have 220 V, and in USA is 125 V.
do you think M's are receptiever (more receptive) to static noise for this reason?.

Maybe Tom or Roy could answer this question.

Javier

[tom]

i don't think the m's are any more likly to hum.

[funalij]

Hi eveybody:

I have just played my TC with M's in a Koch Twintone side by side with a TA classic and a Tyler studio Elite and TC is noisier (without touching any metal surface) than the other guitars I played today, it's not the location/environment.

I guess I must be carefully with it.

Thank you Killerburst and Tom for your help

Javier

[tom]

maybe this is a dumb question, but i've thought about it a lot. when would i not be touching the guitar when i'm playing it? either my left hand is on the strings or my right hand is on the bridge. i'm so confused.

[brian b]

maybe this is a dumb question, but i've thought about it a lot. when would i not be touching the guitar when i'm playing it? either my left hand is on the strings or my right hand is on the bridge. i'm so confused.
I always thoughtit was cool when you touch the strings and the get close to the mike. The shocking feeling makes you feel warm all over. :rolleyes:

[tomsalvojazz]

I experienced this very same thing, much to my frustration. The vol and tone pots would crackle when I wasn't touching the guitar anyplace else. There's also a hum that goes away as soon as you touch any metal part (tuner, string, bridge, etc.).

This was happening at home; however, as soon as I plugged the amp into a different outlet, the guitar was dead quiet.

It might not be the strings; it might be the inevitable mysterious grounding problem someplace in the house or wherever you happen to be plugging in.

[tom]

this topic is brought up every week at the shop by customer, evry day in music stores, and we have heard that amp manufacturers hear it all the time as well. i posted once what is physicly happeneing, if you want i will post it again. it will be different in different place bases on things outside anyones control, but it will be there. here's an analogy from outside the music business.
i recently bought a really nice bike. i rode it for a while and it was wonderful. it handled like a dream and was unbelievably comfortable. i had to return it because every time i came to a stop, it fell over. the guy at the shop told me i should put my foot down when i stopped. it worked, and i now love this bike even more.
that may sound silly, but it applies here. there are forces at work, like gravity in the story, that we can not completely control. from a very early age, i learned that when i was not playing, i rolled the volume down on my guitar. i don't even think about doing it now it is second nature to me.

[Roy (maybe)]

Tom & Bruce,

Do you guys have anything to cancel all the hum from the outside world at all times—some sort of suit I can wear or a helmet perhaps—maybe a bubble I can get inside to play my guitar? It must be transparent so I can be seen but must be conductive—and it will need legs so it won’t roll around. I still need to look good on stage though. Am I asking too much? What about solar flares when sun spot activity is at its highest?

Thanks

[Roy (maybe)]

Now, you are just being silly-aren’t you? You can’t be serious.

Roy (maybe)

[Suriel Zayas]

Tom & Bruce,

Do you guys have anything to cancel all the hum from the outside world at all times—some sort of suit I can wear or a helmet perhaps—maybe a bubble I can get inside to play my guitar? It must be transparent so I can be seen but must be conductive—and it will need legs so it won’t roll around. I still need to look good on stage though. Am I asking too much? What about solar flares when sun spot activity is at its highest?

Thanks
mr. maybe, that sounds like an audition for michael jackson's next tour.

[Roy (maybe)]

You never know the bubble thing could catch on—techno looking—but field hum from the amp’s transformers could still be an issue. If they only didn’t run on AC power they would interfere less—perhaps steam driven would make them totally quiet. Hey, we may be on to something here—or just on something, I don’t know which anymore.

Maybe

[funalij]

You never know the bubble thing could catch on—techno looking—but field hum from the amp’s transformers could still be an issue. If they only didn’t run on AC power they would interfere less—perhaps steam driven would make them totally quiet. Hey, we may be on to something here—or just on something, I don’t know which anymore.

Maybe
Hi Roy:

All we know there are somethings that we can't contol them, but there is some tracks that makes me thing about "search for cause" (I hope you understand me)

Amp, strings, pickups, wires, shield and location/environment are the variables.
The first time I played TC, noise wa unacceptable, a lot of static noise, and touching 6-5-4 strings the noise didn't dissapeared. Tom said me, "change your strings ...." I did it and the noise touching the guitar dissapeared.
If I don't touch any surface metal, noise in TC is bigger(with difference) with my others guitars in the same location/environment.
I was playing TC in other environment (another amp) and with others guitars, and TC was noisier than the others.

I can rule out strings, amp, strings and location/environment.
Tom said "touch guitar every time" that is a right thing, but just image you are using vibrato arm playing harmonics 5th, The noise appears again, so the only solution is touching 6th with thumb finger.

I know touching any metal surface works in nearly all situations, but there must be some reason for noise in pickups, wires or shield, and I'm trying to know what is.

Javier

[funalij]

I really love the tone of this guitar, but I can't feel comfortable 100 % till I know the cause of noise and if I can, send the noise so far away.

You know, forever looking for the big tone

Javier

[tom]

javier, here is what is happening. there are two different but related things going on here. the first is the pots. in an effort to make really smooth feeling pots, the manufacturers use a non conductive lube on the shaft to bushing connection. this makes for an intermittent connection between the two metal pieces. if you are not touching any other metal parts on the guitar, you are intermittently getting connected to ground. i can't think of a real playing situation where you would not have either your left hand on the strings, or your right hand on the bridge, so i think the better feeling pot is a good compromise.
My guitar is making a lot of noise that subsides when I touch either the volume or tone controls. What’s the problem?

The problem you're experiencing is a common one that has a rather complex answer. First of all, any guitar that
doesn't have active pickups will have this problem. The problem is that we humans are very good conductors of electricity, being sacks of mostly water. You're guitar is grounded through the guitar cord to your amp. You, are also grounded when you are touching anything metal on your guitar. You being a great conductor, acting as a shield when you are grounded. This is why when you are near your amp, and holding your guitar, you can turn your body to reduce the hum coming from your amp. When you are not grounded to your guitar (not touching anything metal), you are still a good conductor, but instead of being a shield you are an antenna for all the world's hum and noise, drawing it close for your guitar to hear and amplify. The most common solution for the problem is to roll your guitar volume pot down when you are not playing or keep your hands touching some metal on your guitar.
i'm out of words on this subject.

[dannopelli]

Javier,

I can understand your frustration when playing harmonics and using the arm.

I think Tom explained best what is causing your issues. You mentioned different amp. But did you mention different location? I do not remember.

My point is, it could very well be an issue with the electrical service you are using. When I lived in South Florida, I had six amps that ALL sounded like crap and were noisy in my house. Every where else they sounded fine. I had my service checked by two electricians that found nothing. I had it checked by one of the brilliant PC technicians from my office and he found that my voltage range was all over the place. I am not sure what he did but we brought in an electrician and fixed it. Also, my PC stopped crapping out too!

Back to the arm/harmonics.. I understand the techiquue you are employing and yes you would not be touching eitther the bridge or the stgrings. But you would be touching the metal arm which is connected to the bridge, if you just change your technique slightly.

Hope some of this helps!
Danno

[funalij]

Thanks eveybody for the interest.

I think the best way to all of you understand me, it's a mp3 example, let me a couple of days to record some track and I will post.

Danno: It's the only guitar that makes me this noise (in my location/environment), and I tested in other location/environment with others guitars (not mine) with the same result than my house, so please, wait to mp3 examples and you will undestand what I'm saying.

I know my english is not very good, so maybe I don't explain well what it happens, please, wait for mp3 tracks.

Javier

[Roy (maybe)]

Hi Javier,

Which M-Series Anderson guitar do you have?

Maybe

[funalij]

Hi Javier,

Which M-Series Anderson guitar do you have?

Maybe
Hi Roy:

M1-M1-M3 (10-06-05A), Tom said me M's aren't so noisiers

Javier

[Roy (maybe)]

Hi Javier,

Yes, and I completely agree with Tom on that point—M’s aren’t noisy. In fact, they are exceptionally quiet. So we are good on that point.

There is no record of guitar 10-06-05A in serial number search or in our records. Please check your serial number again. I would like to know which guitar you are playing.

Thanks and have fun.

Happy Playing,
Roy (maybe)

[brian b]

Hey roy it is 06-10-05A this one.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/bcbtoby/anderson007.jpg

[funalij]

Hi Javier,

Yes, and I completely agree with Tom on that point—M’s aren’t noisy. In fact, they are exceptionally quiet. So we are good on that point.

There is no record of guitar 10-06-05A in serial number search or in our records. Please check your serial number again. I would like to know which guitar you are playing.

Thanks and have fun.

Happy Playing,
Roy (maybe)
Sorry Roy:
In spain we put day-month-year, Brian B has put the correct one.

Javier

[funalij]

Sorry for delay, It's been a long time without recording (5 years) and I had to configure the computer, loading drivers, testing why It didn't sound...,......

Anyway, he it's the mp3 file. It's a short recording;
It has been recording with a Digitech 2120 direct to computer (with a Isis Maxi-sound card).

The track is clean channel, no effect, low volume.

1.- First 5 seconds (a couple of touch to test volume)

2.- 6 to 22 seconds
Each 2 seconds (more or less) I touch/don't touch (in every position pickup) strings and I'm going from neck to bridge positions. I hope you can notice noise when I don't touch strings

3.- 23 to 28 seconds
Playing harmonics with vibrato arm but only touching plastic (end of vibrato arm), I'm not touching any metal surface.

4.- 29 to 41 seconds
Playing harmonics holding metal of vibrato arm (only touching this metal surface, not strings)

Another thing I notice, is that when I'm playing rythm (with my right hand without pickup, only fingers) and making chord with my left hand, when my fingers pass throw pickguard, it sounds static noise (and I'm touching strings with my left hand)

http://file-4260-audio1.mp3.hearusplay.com

It's so strange for me, never had this situation in the past so I'm confused.
It's about 2:00 AM so it's time to go bed, I have to wake up 7:00 AM.
Tomorrow I will see your comments

Good dreams everybody

Javier

[dannopelli]

Javier,

Thanks for the .mp3 file. That helped.

OK for reference I have an M equipped Cobra S, 03-23-04D. If you go to the "images" section of the Anderson Forum Home page it is the third guitar down. Dan's Cobra S (http://www.andersonforum.com/guitarimages/index.htm) I tell you this because your guitar and mine have the same pickup configuration.

I performed the same tests as you using a POD XT with headphones, then a Mesa F 30. I tried both clean and distorted sounds.

The hum you are getting, from what I can tell is normal. As I said earlier, I performed the same harmonics test as you. I also did this test with a PRS Standard 22 with Dragon II pickups. And I got hum in the background. I then tried, AFTER hitting open harmonics, intermittently touching the bridge, and the hum went away while my finger contacted the bridge, and came back when it did not. Hitting harmonics while holding the metal part of the arm, or keeping the heel of my palm on the bridge eliminated the hum. So maybe if you alter your technique a bit that will be cured.

The static is another issue. It sounds like a short somewhere.

Only thing I can suggest then is take the guitar to a local, and reputable tech. Might be as simple as a loose jack wire. Hopefully it is any way.

By the way, COOL LOOKING Guitar!

Danno

[dannopelli]

You know I just listened CAREFULLY again to the .mp3. The static happens in conjuntion with the music. It is not like the sound is cutting out like it would with a short.

Or maybe I am wrong. So regarding the static, I guess I should defer to the experts, Tom and Roy.

I do believe I am correct about the hum however.

[killerburst]

The trem arm is metal, but it is inusulated with the nylon bushing insert. Perhaps when the trem arm is manuevered, it comes into contact with the metal of the trem block and so the static is an intermittent connection (the ground to your body via the trem arm).

I suggest trying a cable that has the shield connected at the amp end only. I have been very happy with these (http://www.procosound.com/defender.htm).

[Duotones]

IMHO, noise heard on early part of mp3 file is definitely a ground noise due to imappropriate grounding.

I've seen many guys complaining about noise. After proper grounding of their amplifiers was done, these noises were usually dramatically reduced in many cases.

Appropriate earthing of your amplifiers can reduce this noise.

If it cannot be done, I think shielding can be helpful, but I'm not sure how effective it will be.

When I think about the noise when you use tremolo bar, two possibilities are present. After proper grounding is done, this noise can be reduced. The second possibility is; there can be some cold solder joint at the cover of volume pots or the claw of tremolo unit. Look at the solder joint at the claw of tremolo and cover of volume pot.

I think Tom and Roy will give you better answer than me. ;)

Thanks,

Jinwon Seo

[funalij]

I was taking some pics from the inside and I saw a earth wire soldering that seems nearly break, I soldered but it seems not to be effect.

Now I must go, so on Sunday I will do a deep solder view, and I will tell you if there is something bad that I can see.

Thank you everybody for help me

Happy weekend
Javier

[Roy (maybe)]

I am literally sitting here scratching my head at this discussion over what an electric guitar sounds like when you refuse to touch the stings and let the grounding and shielding system that is built into the guitar do its job.
Playing electric guitar, made by any maker, for more than a week should make you familiar with this characteristic. Mesa/Boogie has even coined a name for it, they call it field hum—normal for all electric guitars.

Let’s have fun with this as we learn, shall we? This is actually simple stuff and easy to manage once you understand the physical laws in operation. I will try to clarify this one more time and then I must never speak of this again. I have taken a vow of silence and must travel to the accent city of Tumabuka in the Peruvian Andes where I will meditate for four days on 60-cycle hum and what it means to me. I will work on acceptance of physical law. Care to join me?

Let’s get started. Assume the lotus position.

Electric guitar pickups work by sensing magnetic field interruption. That is how they hear your guitar strings—no other way. The movement of your guitar strings strongly interrupts the pickup’s magnetic field. All electrical fields everywhere on the planet are surrounded by electro-magnetic waves and your pickups will hear anything within close enough proximity—your computer mouse, your micro wave, your curling iron, yes even your television. The more sensitive the guitar pickup, the more they will hear.

An electric guitar’s strings are grounded to shunt external magnetic interference away—allowing only close proximity interference to enter—the movement of your guitar strings interrupting the magnetic field of the pickups. But anything that can get close enough to interrupt the field of the pickups will be heard (physical law at work here—can’t be changed no matter how much you wish for it). Again, the better the pickups the more is heard.

Hold the strings. They and you together act as a shield to protect the magnetic field of the pickups from being interrupted by sources other than the string movement. This will vary depending on what electro-magnetic fields are surging around you at the time. Cuddling up to you computer with your electric guitar strapped on—you should hear it. It becomes close-proximity electro-magnetic interference.

So, let me say it one more time. Close your eyes and listen to me. Take a deep breath. Touch your strings when you play your guitar—all of them. Strings are good and they are grounded to keep—say it with me now—outside electro-magnetic interference from interrupting the magnetic field of the pickups.

My last words (what a relief for you I am sure): I listened to the MP3. The long pause where slight hum is present is normal. I had to turn up my computer just to hear it. Touch the strings—they are not evil, but good. The crackling heard later with the harmonics is static electricity discharging. It is happening because you are moving your trem bar in its nylon sleeve without touching any other metal—not touching any ground. When you rub nylon—under certain conditions—a static charge can build up. Open a pre-packaged pack of crackers some time, it will stick to your hands—static electricity—physical law of plastics—can’t be changed—must be understood. If you are not touching any metal then static will build up and must discharge. A trem arm that threads into the bridge base plate by screwing in has a metal-to-metal contact and will not allow static to build up. But the huge drawback there is that there is no arm tension adjustment either—not good for most players.

Solution: touch some metal—strings or bridge—or keep your fingertip entirely on the plastic tip only when static is present. If you cannot manage this, a Gotoh 1099 vintage trem with screw-in style are can be fitted to the guitar. It will just drop right in. You will loose the arm tension feature but will have all metal-to-metal arm-to-bridge contact at all times—no static can build up—no outside electro-magnetic interference to interrupt the sensitive magnetic field of the pickups.

Okay now this is really my last words on the matter—forever and ever, ready? Touch your guitar with you hands when you play and don’t climb inside other electronic devises with your guitar if you can avoid it! Roll down your volume control when you need total silence. It grounds the amp too.

Okay then, I am off to the Peruvian Andes. The silence has begun. It begins with touching.

Happy Playing.

[brian b]

I think I might just have make an offer and buy it back. When I had it and played no noise. But I did not use the trem. It might just stop the madness.

[bruce]

Oh yeah, and don't use a cell phone while pumping gas into your car... static build up.

[dannopelli]

Roy,

On my way to Machu Picchu via the Enterprise transporter. Leaving in 2.31 star hours. Let me know soon if you a lift.

Danno

BTW, do you really think the static was just a build up? I mean the 60 cycle hum is normal. Just seems a bit odd. I have never had that happen. Even if I do the whole rug shuffle, rub a balloon on my head thing, once I touch the guitar or kiss the microhone it discharges immediately. Just seems odd that the discahrge would be delayed like that.

THIS IS SO MUCH FUN!

[scottiK]

but no one of my others guitars has this problem (Jem 7PBK, LP, TA classic).


I just read through this thread and thought it was interesting that with all of the well informed answers that the info quoted above was surprisingly overlooked. If ALL of his other guitars do NOT have this problem, including a TA with Elixirs, then I would assume it has to be something with this guitar.

Just my $.02.

scott

[bud]

Oh yeah, and don't use a cell phone while pumping gas into your car... static build up.

But what if I get my guitar out of the trunk, hold my hand on the strings, and talk on the phone via a blue-tooth headset and pump gas..... :D

[dannopelli]

I just read through this thread and thought it was interesting that with all of the well informed answers that the info quoted above was surprisingly overlooked. If ALL of his other guitars do NOT have this problem, including a TA with Elixirs, then I would assume it has to be something with this guitar.

Just my $.02.

scott

Hey Scott,

I think if you check my replies you'll see I am still confused about the static issue. I actually think that is Javier's major concern too, as you notice in his most recent post he is looking at solder points for a loose connection.

Danno

[bruce]

There are no loose solder joints..Please don't dis-assemble that guitar... if there was a loose solder joint, there would NOT be a sonic difference when the strings were touched.

The trem arm noise on the clip I heard is very simple... it is static. The reason some guitars do the noise and others don't is because some types of trem arms are isolated from being grounded and some are not.

Very simply put, from the clip I heard, there is nothing wrong with this guitar, the tremolo, the pots, the mouse wheel, or the Elixir strings. These are normal noises that electric guitars make... especially when you hold them in front of or around other electronic devices.

[brian b]

What trem did you use, You said it was missing one when you got it. Is it one from another anderson?

[Janine Doubly]

If you guys don't mind, I'd like to chime in on this discussion. I can see where he is having an issue with the buzzing and static, but Roy is right, if the trem arm is not connected to the trem block, then it will not ground the hum when this is the only place you are touching the guitar. I think putting a Gotoh 1099 bridge is the ticket, especially if you get it with the metal screw-on tip. Roy could answer this as well, I bet the Gotoh 1088 bridge would fit as well, but it would change the sound of the guitar, since it has bent metal bridge pieces. The metal screw on tip will affect the feel of the arm movement, since it adds some considerable extra mass on to the trem arm. Personally, I like the way the metal arm tip feels AND it gives you a metal tip to touch so that you are grounding the trem arm. To fix any trem arm slop on the 1099 and 1088 arm, wrap the threads of the trem arm with a bit of teflon tape, but NOT TOO MUCH so that it disconnects the arm from the trem block, then you will be back to square one with the hum problem. I hope this helps!

[funalij]

Ok guys:

1st: Thank you everybody for interest and comments about it.

2nd: Brian, I like a lot the tone of this guitar so don't worry about it.

3nd: When I told you arm vibrato didn't seemed the right one, is cause itdoesn't adjust well (loose), (I put TA classic arm vibrato and it works fine), but anyway don't worry about trem arm, I can use vibrato arm for both TA guitars that I own.
By the way, I hope Rita dont't hurt you and yours (are you from Texas, isn't it?)

4th: Tom, Roy, Bruce:
I know you are more experience, so I will follow your advice and forever I touch any metal surface.
I will not dis-assemble the guitar.

5.- Ok, it's time to close this thread,

Thank you again for help

Javier

[dannopelli]

.

5.- Ok, it's time to close this thread,



NO WE CAN'T CLOSE THIS THREAD! WHAT WILL WE DO WITH ALL OUR FREE BRAIN CELLS NOW!

Oh the horror.. the horror...

[brian b]

NO WE CAN'T CLOSE THIS THREAD! WHAT WILL WE DO WITH ALL OUR FREE BRAIN CELLS NOW!

Oh the horror.. the horror...
Brain cels or Brian cells :rolleyes: can't ever tell the differnce.

[crash]

Just to keep the thread going, I wanted to weigh in on the screen name 'Janine Doubly'. Priceless. Where's Artie Fufkin when you need him?