Adjusting my VA's - Fine tuning the tone (and S-comparisons)

[JoeB63]

I have an alder/rosewood Classic with VA1s. I love the playability of the guitar, but I have to say that when I compare it side-by-side to my Fender Relic 60's Strat (also alder/rosewood), I've always preferred the Fender. Let me explain why.

The Fender has a warmer, rounder tone (I hope you know what I mean by that). The TA Classic has a more (man, I hate to use this term) harmonically complex sound -- which is most easily noticed when playing the Hendrix chord (E7#9). But the TA always sounds more "pingy," and more hard, or less warm and round.

Finally last night I decided to try to adjust the VA pickup heights to see what would happen. I did this while the guitar was plugged in and I kept going back and forth between the Fender and the TA to compare.

It moved the VA's closer to the strings and that seemed to warm and thicken things up a bit. After a while I got ear fatique and while I felt that I gotten to a point where I prefered the sound of the TA over the Fender, I really can't be sure. I'm going to have to go back at it tonight with fresh ears.

But I'm also now concerned that I've got the VA's too close to the strings. I really didn't raise them all that much -- but they are much closer to the strings than are the pickups on the Fender. (Note that I did try lowering the TA pickups from their initial positions, but that made things worse).

Does anyone have experience with this? And recommendations from Tom? Can anyone recommend replacement pickups, if I finally decide that the VAs aren't cutting it (sorry Tom).

As I said, I think it might be OK now, but any advice is certainly welcome.

Thanks

[Roy (maybe)]

There are varying opinions when adjusting the height of vintage single coils because some players want a clear and bright single coil sound that does pull on the strings too hard—because each pole piece is a magnet. Others that seek fat and giant single coil tone adjust the high E side of the pickups quite close to the strings. This actually fattens the tone. The low E side on the neck and mid pickups should be tipped away from the low strings just enough as to not pull the larger low strings out of tune with the magnetic force. The bridge pickup is tipped away as well but very slightly since it is so close to where the strings terminate at the bridge it will not pull the sting out. Listen, it is easy to get them to sound huge.

A most important thing to remember is that great tone by yourself in your studio or bedroom does not translate to the same thing with a band. Without the sight upper-mid cut you will disappear in a band and actually sound smaller and thin. When the upper-mid articulation is happening correctly you can sound a bit “forward” by yourself but this will translate to huge and fatter within the band and in the song—even when featured by yourself in the song.

[JoeB63]

A most important thing to remember is that great tone by yourself in your studio or bedroom does not translate to the same thing with a band. Without the sight upper-mid cut you will disappear in a band and actually sound smaller and thin. When the upper-mid articulation is happening correctly you can sound a bit “forward” by yourself but this will translate to huge and fatter within the band and in the song—even when featured by yourself in the song.

This is interesting. Everyone talks about "cutting through" the band, but I find that more often than not I look to "blend in" with the band. Unless I'm soloing, I want my guitar tone to sit in the mix, not stand out from it. (Imagine a band where each member is trying to "cut through"). And I want to hear a tone that is pleasing to my ear, which is usually just a few feet in front of and a a few feet above the amp -- because I can't play my best when I don't like what I'm hearing -- instead I feel like I'm struggling all night. And you know that the on-stage mix is nothing like the house mix. Those are the factors I use when "getting my tone."

When it comes time to solo, there's lots of ways to cut through - boost pedal, different amp channel, soundman with his hands on the board, etc.

And even though I gig regularly with 2 bands, I'm not ashamed to admit that 80%+ of my playing time is little ol' me sitting alone in my room. And I sure want to sound as good as possible in that environment.

[Roy (maybe)]

Okay, good then,

Try adjusting the pickups and see if they please under most all circumstances. If not, there are always Anderson alternatives. Are you running VA1s in neck and middle or VA12s?

[BFC]

This is one thing I love about the VA12 and VA23 pickups. Depending on the situation and my mood I can have either the VA1 stock sound or the VA2 sound in the middle and neck positions and a choice between VA2 and VA3 in the bridge.

Flipping the switch into the 'overwound vintage' mode makes things beefier without raising the pickups closer to the strings. Sometimes I would use the VA1 mode for a cleaner neck/middle combo sound with the volume knob rolled back a hair. Then for a lead I could flip to the neck position, roll up the volume, and flip the mini switch to the hotter VA2 sound. Depends on the song of course.

This also provided some nice alternatives at home. Some days the vintage output would be just right while other days had me thinking the overwound sound was it.

Could be expensive on an existing guitar though.

[tom]

i'm probably not the best guy to advise about alnico pickups because they are not my personal choice. i think you are after the sound of closer rather than farther away. the magnetic pull of alnico strat pickups for me makes the guitar feel dull or not sustainy. dull is a bad word, but it may be more what you are after. i remember playing eric johnson's main guitar, and noticing that he had the pickup cranked way up. i certainly wouldn't complain about his tone. i think my complaint is more about the feel of the magnets pull more than the tone that comes off the guitar.
as for the "cut through" thing, perhaps finding a place in the mix is a better term. i struggle with dialing in tones at home or in the shop. i can dial in my perfect tone, then get to the gig and the sound guy will ask for more high end cause he can't hear me. when i do a little tweaking, he is happy, and surprisingly so am i. it's not that i'm trying for a different tone, it's just that with the other instruments doing their thing, they add bottom to what i am doing. my guitar still sounds the way i want to hear it when they are playing. when i get home it's a different story. this past weekend i was particularly enamered with my sound. sorry, i can't help it sometimes. i set up my rig at home to mess with some new pedals, and was startled at how bright and edgy it sounded without the rest of the band playing.

[JoeB63]

Okay, good then,

Try adjusting the pickups and see if they please under most all circumstances. If not, there are always Anderson alternatives. Are you running VA1s in neck and middle or VA12s?

All VA1s.


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[JoeB63]

This is one thing I love about the VA12 and VA23 pickups....


Brian, you're the guy to ask, since I bought the guitar from you...

Did you change the factory pickup heights at all before I bought it?

[BFC]

No, I never messed with them. I played that guitar exclusively through a Clark Beaufort which is basically a tweed Deluxe. That amp had a rounder top kind of tone to begin with so my impressions of that guitar are probably totally different.

[Turrican]

Hey Joe (i like the sound of that), first thing is that, since you found a strat you like better than your andy, KEEP IT!!! it is a rare find.
What i do in such occasions, is play with the tone control, i find TAs have the most responsive tone control there is.
Or, you could always change pickups to see what happens.

And, Tom, did you play Eric Johnson's main guitar?
Please, info!!!

[Roy (maybe)]

Hi Joe,

VA1s, that’s good. Those are the pickups I play the majority of the time and I do get a huge, huge VA tone—my favorite Strat tone—by far. I only say that so you know it is not a humbucker-only player offering advice. I live what you do.

Proximity of pickup to the string is such a personal thing that the “Factory Height” is not necessarily going to be what you will like best. As Tom said he doesn’t care for vintage-type pickups that are too close because the pull on the string changes sustain. On the other hand, Anderson guitars are perfect, in my mind, for having vintage-style pickup close and big sounding because of the extra sustain that an Anderson guitar effortlessly offers, it is a very nice fit if you are after that big vintage tone. Don’t be afraid, trust your feelings Luke, I mean Dave, move the high-side of the pickups close to the strings. Tip the low side of the neck and middle away a bit and a little for the bridge too—but much less tipping there. Turn the controls on the amp for best tone for every guitar you plug in and have fun.

If you need a bit more there are always VA12s for neck and middle or other wonders.

You could always call Roy at Anderson and he could advise in more detail. I will mention this to him so he knows of your situation.

[tom]

it was the '57 burst i played. it had really high action, jumbo frets, flattened fingerboard, brass saddle on the high e string. d'marzio stack split in the bridge position, pickups adjusted really high, dull strings. what can i say, it was not "special" for me, but he sure did play it nice. i also watched him go back and forth listening to 2 different 12ax7's in his marshall for about 45 minutes before he would play. his tech would change the tube, he would play a few minutes, then change, then play, for 45 minutes. the promoter was pacing backstage wondering when they would be able to start the show.

[bruce]

Was the promoter pacing North/South or East/West? That could have been the reason the 12AX7 was not right.

[guitarzan]

right, right- or if he used his left hand or his right hand to put it in the socket. they're totally different.

[bruce]

JoeB63,

Try this... While holding the High E string down at the last fret, adjust the pickups so that there is an 1/8" gap inbetween the pole-piece and string. Now, do the same to the Low E side but make the gap slightly greater than 1/8'' (maybe 3/16) .... now re check the high E side to make sure it's still at 1/8'' and adjust if need.

Keep in mind you are ALWAYS checking this string-to-pickup height with both E strings depressed at the last frets.

[joe1962]

What i do in such occasions, is play with the tone control, i find TAs have the most responsive tone control there is.

I'd have to agree here. I've found that rolling to tone control back about 1/3 to 1/2 way on my Anderson singles gets them closer to what you're probably hearing from your Fender. You may also want to try a tone cap that is like what's in the Fender to warm up the tone a bit. The Fender probably has a .05 tone cap, which is going to be darker than the Anderson value even with the tone wide open.

[JoeB63]

it was the '57 burst i played. it had really high action, jumbo frets, flattened fingerboard, brass saddle on the high e string. d'marzio stack split in the bridge position, pickups adjusted really high, dull strings. what can i say, it was not "special" for me, but he sure did play it nice. i also watched him go back and forth listening to 2 different 12ax7's in his marshall for about 45 minutes before he would play. his tech would change the tube, he would play a few minutes, then change, then play, for 45 minutes. the promoter was pacing backstage wondering when they would be able to start the show.

I just had a chance to try the new Eric Johnson Sig Strat at GC last weekend. I couldn't really tell how it sounded because some dude was blasting metal riffs nearby, but...

It has a really fat neck with a very glossy and seemingly thick finish. Nice big frets, but I hated that neck finish. Evidently it's nitro. I'd imagine that the finish on EJ's '58 (which this was modeled after) must be either almost completely gone or at least worn down to a very thin, non-glossy condition. IMO, they ruined the guitar with that finish. I'm suprised that EJ likes it.

And the neck was too fat for me.

[tom]

that is weird, his guitar had little or no finish on the fretboard since it had been shaved, and the back was well worn like you'd expect. but then again the srv guitar has a pauferro fingerboard and i'm pretty sure fender never ever used pauferro on their older guitars.