Sound People Horror Stories

[mbrown3]

I was just thinking about a conversation briefly started on another thread (http://www.andersonforum.com/board/showthread.php?t=1709), and it made me think of a story from a couple of years ago.

I was asked to attend a conference in the midwest as the "sound advisor". I was told that a major "pro" company was always hired from Philadelphia (apparently they don't have these types of companies in Chicago or any other closer towns!), but that the people who actually ran the sound were NOT good. These guys would set up and run the equipment fine, but they just didn't have the "musical" ear to make things sound good. So I was asked to come and "advise" them on what needed to be adjusted, etc.

So I showed up and the first night I was saying things like, "The piano needs to come up, the drums need to come down, flatten the EQ on the lead mic," etc., and the main sound guy blew up at me. He was like, "Do you want to let me do my job?!? I know what I'm doing. Who are YOU?" Apparently the folks that hired me never actually told the sound folks why I was there or that they had hired me, and they were quite offended at the notion (understandably so). The worst part was that they really were terrible and definitely did need help with adjustments. I made it clear to the people that hired me that I was NOT happy that they hadn't told the sounds guys what was going on. They apologized, but still didn't have the backbone to tell them (particularly after they heard how offended the main guy was!). So I ended up just hanging out and the sound was awful the whole time. That company was not hired again the following year.

Anyone else have similar horror stories related to sound engineers, etc.?

[sylvanshine]

There is a club in Dallas where all the big local & regional bands play. Best sound guy in town and he has built an amazing system. By far, the best place to catch a show in the 100-300 capacity range.

However, it is also widely known that you don't piss him off. I have heard him tell stories about bands that came in and "big timed" him. Stuff like "this is a $3,000 bass, it better sound good". Well, that guy got his bass signal sent through a harmonizer a half step higher and then fed back through just his monitor. The whole night he was trying to compensate for his bass sounding a half step off.

A drummer got his snare triggering a boxing fight bell so everytime he hit his snare he heard a "DING" in his monitor.

Two people to make friends with the minute you show up to load in are the sound guy and the bartender.

[tom]

ouch, but very creative!

[dkaplowitz]

We had to hire someone to be our "sound tech" for gigs in Europe when we were over there. Basically we had a clear vision of how the band should sound, or at least the minimum acceptable mix for us, so we'd spend a ton of time soundchecking on whichever gear the club had. Our sound tech was basically a bouncer who would guard the board that our singer would set up, while the band was playing or otherwise occupied, to make sure none of the club-provided sound techs didn't mess with the board (as nine times out of ten they would if left unsupervised).

We had learned from all kinds of crazy experiences like spending a couple hours coaxing a halfway decent mix out of the PA only to come back from our meal to find _EVERYTHING_ completely undone (including mic placement changes). Or there were the sound techs that the club provided who would show us how great all the LED indicators looked, but one second of listening to the mix revealed how awful everything sounded and that he was mixing with his eyes, not with his ears, assuming he didn't have a tin ear to begin with (which is why "well educated" sound mixers should be monitored closely). There were also the guys who seemed decent that we'd trust to mix the band, but if any of us came out into the area where the crowd was, we'd hear something radically different than we started with (and yes taking into account the ambient changes a room full of people makes)....so he'd basically be twiddling around the whole time (digital fixation problem) and would basically sap any decent sound out of our mix.

I know that it's the club's equipment and all and that you have to give some leeway, but it's amazing how many people in the club would think it was okay to come up to the board, turn down the mains and sap all the highs out of our mix and basically neuter the sound of the band. We also noticed the psychological effect this had on the crowd. You would see a room full of people dancing and/or moshing suddenly lose interest and disperse. It was a completely reliable/reproduceable result. And your band is what looks bad, no one is going to write a review about how the mix sucked, they're going to say you sucked.

I think if you're anal about your tone, you will always be at odds with most professional sound people, unless you hire your own technician to do it for you...and ideally with your own gear.

[olectric]

I was playing at a youth conference about five or six years ago. After the sound check, I asked the sound guy how everything was going out front. He said that it was great. After his next comment, I immediately realized that great to him was very different from great to me. He told me that he sweetened everything up by adding some reverb to the kick and snare. To me, that sounds horrible. Kicks in particular are supposed to be short and punchy, like hitting you in the chest, not some resonating low frequency that muds everything up. In my experience, most engineers even gate the kick to tighten it up. I never got the chance to hear our sound from out front, because I was always on stage. I think that's a good thing.

[nickdahl]

Two people to make friends with the minute you show up to load in are the sound guy and the bartender.

Truer words were never spoken!

Nick

[brian b]

What we need is a copy of the old Far Side cartoon where the sound guy hits the Sux button.

[Dave M.]

What we need is a copy of the old Far Side cartoon where the sound guy hits the Sux button.

You mean Raymond? ;)


http://home.mindspring.com/~dmurray6/raymondsux.jpg

[brian b]

Yea that's the one. i can relate been on both sides of the story. A sound man needs to be a musican not tone deaf like the rest of us. :rolleyes:

[Casper]

I think the problem I have experienced in my last two bands is that the soundguys are walking books. These guys have a rack full of tour quality gear and read every trade...in other words, they can tell you everything to the millisecond of whats going on in the system, can hook up any power arrangement and can fix anything quickly and on the spot. Our guy is excellent in this regard and it makes him invaluable to our band.
Trouble is, many don't understand dynamics, vocal balance or subtlety. They will give you a very slick mix..powerful, washed in grease, heavily compressed and zero noise. Our guy is in his mid 50's and a former drummer. Its obvious he can't hear some things. On the occasion when one of us gets out front during a song we don't play on, its obvious things are missing or way too far out of the mix. In his defense, we aren't the young super go all night full of energy guys anymore either. In our case, the mix is super-crisp and fat low with no warmth or mid. Our guy likes to ride faders and is always tweaking a gate or punching a button. One of my fav guys in town will get a decent check and forget it other than to push a fader for a solo now and then.

[dkaplowitz]

I hear ya Casper. All that education and gear can't overcome bad taste or a tin ear. If the guy's sensibilities are out of sync with your (or your band's) standards, he's not gonna be the guy to mix you.

And someone riding the faders is like a guitar player who's constantly twiddling and whiddling when it's not his turn....it's like some people think they'll disappear if they're not noodling all the time. There's nothing wrong with a little silence in music and in sitting back and enjoying a good mix.

[chadmj]

I'm not sure if /riding the faders/ is a bad thing. As well as serving on the music team at church I also mix. Riding faders can help with some dynamic if done right (and the musicians know it is happening so they don't over adjust).

I know that I am never totally satisfied with my mixes so I am always listening to what could make it better. I don't know if it is because we are all volunteers and some of the vocalists don't understand dynamics (where to hold the microphone while belting or singing softly). So, as a result I find myself constantly mixing our background vocalists... like hands on their faders at all times. It's a blending thing...

When you have different musician combinations / vocalist combinations every weekend it requires a lot of riding faders because some people don't sing / mix very well with others... if you know what I mean.

But, now that I think about it. Once I get my band mix set I really don't adjust it that much... I guess I ride vocals more than anything. But I do still ride faders for guitar or keyboard solos... drum breaks and such...

I can assume I would have a different feeling on this if all musicians and singers were the same every week.

[mbrown3]

Good point, chadmj. When I've done mixing I do notice that musicians (especially singers who also play an instrument) are very inconsistent. However, from the musician side of things, one thing I constantly deal with at my church is that we have certain sound guys that really really like hot mics. And I find them way too loud. No matter how many times I ask them to cut them down in sound check, they always adjust them upwards again during the service. So then I have to pull back to compensate, and then they keep bringing up the mics. By the end we've got almost-feeding-back mics and no need for it. So I can see both sides of it too.

[jimmieb]

When I do sound the first and most important thing is to get the monitor mix right. If the musician feel comfortable then and only then do I worry about the house mix. Then they can rehearse and I can tweek the system acurately. Actually if I have balanced out the monitors then the input levels are in balance and the house mix is easy. Then I will tweek the EQ settings getting the vocals, the snare sound, kick, bass, and of course the guitar tones right. If the musician feel comfortable first then their levels will stay consistant. So if a vocalist can hear themselves and the other musicians are in balance in their monitor, they won't hold back or push their voice out front. The key is getting to monitors right first. Then a sound person has control and the musicians feel like they are being heard correctly. A good sound person is as important as any bandmembers and I think a sound person
is one of the bandmembers. If not then, that's when you get passive/agressive problems and the music, performance or church service is compromised.

Jimmie B

[Casper]

I mixed bands myself as a younger man. (My agent got tired of doing it himself and trained me on basics..long story). It was similar to many of you who mix in church or a fixed setting with a house PA. I was in one nightclub and had the same band to mix every weekend. I learned alot. Those are ideal situations for most sound people; even with guest engineers....not much changes other than the musicians.
With our traveling band, our rider is very specific about power, load-in and staging requirements for the band. Most times they are met. When they are not, it makes it difficult for our sound guy. I have seen him basically rewire a building's 220, make multiple 110 connections, and rewire power amps. This is where I have a hard time complaining about sound people...alot of them have skills with things of this nature. They can mix in a museum or gym or a 10x20 room with glass windows...priceless.
I went to one of these fly-by-night recording schools in Atlanta back in 86 and we studied studio and live mixing. Of all the tricks and gadgets, my audio teacher said.."a $1000.00 reverb unit or a $50000.00 console won't fix bad ears" You have to understand the song and its needs, not just the players..