Tips for a budding working musician??

[olectric]

I have been a member here for all of a couple of weeks, and I've got to say, this forum impresses me a lot. I have seen some posts by a guy named Tom who claims to be the supreme commander of the Anderson empire. At first, I thought it was a joke. But no, Mr. Anderson himself graces us with his thoughts on what he loves. He's not the only big name--I've seen Suriel around and some other session players. This is great! I would pay money to sit in a room and listen to you people talk, but I get to effectively do that here for free. I'm truly humbled. This forum is such a great tool for someone just starting his career with music. I have a question for the local celebrities here--If you could give three pieces of advice to someone who really wants to make a living playing guitar (me), what would they be? I play Andersons exclusively, so please omit that from your response. Thanks so much to whoever responds.

[mbrown3]

Well, I'm no celebrity, sometimes even I forget who I am! ;) But I have been doing music for a while and do OK with it (enough to make a living, though I do have another job to supplement income so that I only have to play clubs when I want to). My advice is as follows:

1. Be completely competent, but realize that technical ability is not nearly the most important thing. GREAT guitarists (and musicians in general) are a dime a dozen (really!). It's also a lot about how easy you are to get along with, how well you work with others, how versatile you are as a musician, and why you're doing music in the first place. Personality and versatility will trump technical ability probably 90% of the time. I would also say that you have to have something to say with your music. Phil Keaggy has said (something to the effect) that some players are excellent with their abilities, but have nothing really to say with their music, and some folks with lesser ability can be moving to listen to because they say something with their playing.

2. Network, network, network. Music is often only about who you know. Be willing to go out of your way to make contacts with people, don't be obnoxious but make sure you connect with as many musicians as you can. Let them know that you play and are open for gigs or even just sitting in with them, if they'll let you. Be open to any musical possibilities that may come your way (teaching a local community class beginning guitar, sitting in with a church band, participating in a local music store "contest," etc.). Go to all the clubs you can find and connect with musicians, even ones that may be outside your natural "genre" or style of music. Look at it as a learning experience, and don't just sit around waiting for the chance to show others how great you can play. Listen, and learn. Hendrix used to go to concerts and sit with a pen and paper, taking notes on what other musicians were doing...it's a great lesson. Even the best guitarists can always learn more, even when the person they're watching/observing isn't as good as them technically (or even musically). There's always something to learn.

3. Know why you're doing music. You have to love music to be in it as a career. If you're in it for money, you'll be miserable (even if you actually make money doing it, I think). It's a rare circumstance that some lucky sap makes it big and makes lots of money without much effort or hardship along the way. Most musicians pay their dues for years and work real hard to "make the scene," and even then, a lot of it is about who you know. You also have to prioritize what's important to you. I quit my old band to go to college, and they've now gone on and signed and are becoming a bit big. Any regrets? Not in the least. I did what I had to, and I'd do it again the same way, without hesitation. You have to be in music for the right reasons. Otherwise, you'll be miserable for a long time waiting to "make it big."

Just my humble advice and thoughts. Best of luck to you as you pursue music. It takes a lot of hard work and persistence (and practice!), but if you do it because you love it, it will all be worth it in the end.

[olectric]

MBrown3--

Thanks so much for your humble advice. Where are you located, and what kinds of gigs do you get? I have thought about moving to Nashville to really get into the scene. I'm in Kansas right now, and I think this is a good place to really hone my chops. There are a lot of places to play--Lawrence, Wichita, and KC are full of venues, but not many studios. Your imput is highly appreciated.

[mbrown3]

MBrown3--

Thanks so much for your humble advice. Where are you located, and what kinds of gigs do you get? I have thought about moving to Nashville to really get into the scene. I'm in Kansas right now, and I think this is a good place to really hone my chops. There are a lot of places to play--Lawrence, Wichita, and KC are full of venues, but not many studios. Your imput is highly appreciated.


Sure thing olectric. I'm in Philly now, and there's a great music scene. I have a steady gig doing church music and LOVE it, but I played in lots of area blues clubs through college. I laid off that a bit in grad school (for obvious reasons) but will likely get back into it in the near future.

Nashville's a great city, particularly for music BUT you'll find that everyone and their brother goes there for the same reason. What you want to do is go somewhere that has a solid music scene (that is noticed by those in the biz) and stand out. Going where ALL the musicians are gives you a higher percentage of biz folks, but a much lesser chance of standing out because of ALL the musicians. Much more likely to get noticed somewhere where the music scene just isn't that big. And I don't mean that in the quality sense, but rather in terms of pure volume. There are SO MANY musicians in cities like Nashville that it's hard to get noticed there (if that's your goal). However, there are ample opportunities to play, so that's a plus. I'm in Philly simply because I went to school here (undergrad and grad) so know the scene and the area. But if my goal was really to go full-career I would go to a city with a good scene, but less volume of cats all trying to make it. A good example is Madison, WI. Solid music scene there, definitely enough that biz folks frequent checking out talent, but small enough that quality folks stand out.

Also, studios matters little when you're breaking into a career. Live playing is really where you want to connect with other musicians. If they like your playing and/or personality, they'll connect you with some studio gigs, or folks that work in studios. So you're doing just what you should be.

Incidentally, I was just in Kansas a couple of weeks ago to do music for a conference. I had been there before, but not since I was little. Cool place.

[Suriel Zayas]

oelectric, this is based on my personal opinion and experience and i do not want generalize. this is part of what has worked for me. i'm not going to get into anything very technical, those bases are usually covered practice and discipline. there are many other issues that can get in the way of a sucessful career (and not just for guitarists or musicians).

1. i'm one among the equals. i'm not greater than anyone and no one is greater than me. it's just a cool vibe. brings me plenty of peace and satisfaction. that put to practice has worked for me.

2. i know and i'm certain that i'm fulfilling God's purpose for my life in what i do. just grateful i can open my eyes every morning and fulfill this purpose. therefore, there are no insecurities or hangups. many times insecurities surface in many, many forms, such as, humiliating others, ego trips (quite common in this industry). hence, i'm at peace and totally fulfilled.

3. i have never been a solo artist and have alwas played in band situations. therefore, as a part of a band, my objective is to achieve one sound from many elements (different instruments). it is not the suriel show. many times your bandmates will not be on that channel and there will always be that one person who wants overshadow everyone else. don't let them pull you into that, force them to gravitate towards you and the rest of the band. a band that works towards one sound, usually sounds very hot. be the equaliser.

peace.

suriel

[olectric]

i know and i'm certain that i'm fulfilling God's purpose for my life in what i do. just grateful i can open my eyes every morning and fulfill this purpose.

That is exactly what I am exploring in my own life. Thanks.

[crash]

2. i know and i'm certain that i'm fulfilling God's purpose for my life in what i do. just grateful i can open my eyes every morning and fulfill this purpose. therefore, there are no insecurities or hangups. many times insecurities surface in many, many forms, such as, humiliating others, ego trips (quite common in this industry). hence, i'm at peace and totally fulfilled.l
+1

As someone said before, I also am no celebrity (especially around here) but here's my two cents.

1) Be professional. Show up on time, and know your stuff when you get there. If it means you leave a half an hour early so you can go by the store and get 9-volt batteries, then do that. This seems obvious, but it goes a long way.

2) Darrell Mansfield once said "Blessed are the flexible, for they shall be used". 'Nuff said.


MBROWN3 - which conference were you in KS for?

[mbrown3]

MBROWN3 - which conference were you in KS for?

It was a missions conference, held at a place called Crosswind Conference Center, and I was called in to do music. Great times, and KS is a pretty cool place.

[olectric]

Kansas really is great! Most people outside the state picture flat nothingness with cows and dirt roads. Well, that's western Kansas for sure, but where I live is a pretty densely wooded area that is full of great trails for hiking and biking. Lots of hills here, too. The people in Kansas are great, too. Most (especially in western Kansas) are very nice and would go out of their way to help a stranger. I'm glad you enjoyed your time here, MBrown3.

[mbrown3]

Yeah, most places aren't anything like people's stereotype of them, but it's particularly cool when it's the negative stereotypes that people realize are wrong. Sometimes, though, places have a very positive repuation/stereotype (for whatever reason), and then you find out it's not positive at all.

Come to think of it, the same applies to stereotypes about people! :)

[crash]

Kansas really is great!... Lots of hills here, too. The people in Kansas are great, too. +2

My wife is from southeastern Kansas (Ft. Scott) and her family is from there so we get back every year or so. Nice part of the country. Eastern Kansas is a lot like the part of Indiana I'm in.

olectric - you refer to yourself as a 'budding musician'. How long have you been playing, what styles, and what are your long-term goals? (i.e., touring musician, local scene staple, session player, other?).

[olectric]

olectric - you refer to yourself as a 'budding musician'. How long have you been playing, what styles, and what are your long-term goals? (i.e., touring musician, local scene staple, session player, other?).

The "budding" part was in reference to my recent decision to, once grad school is over (MS in mathematics, pending May '05), pursue guitar playing as a profession. I've been playing for 10 years, I gave lessons for 4 years and taught 3 classes for college credit to put myself through school. I am really into rock, funk, and modern jazz, but most of my gigs lately (worship teams and local artists) have been rock/pop oriented.

In terms of goals, in five years I would like to have a reputation as a patient, easy to work with guitarist with no ego-trip and a great sound. I would like to be playing consistently enough throughout the week that I could make a meager living. By the end of the summer, I would like to be able to sight read 9 out of 10 charts put in front of me and have a much cleaner, snappier right hand. I would also like to be studying with the jazz monster Jerry Hahn, who is in Kansas now. I am committed to living in Manhattan for another year starting in June. After that, I would like to be somewhere with a live/studio scene with enough work to make a living on. Touring, studio, and local scene stuff are all possibilities at this point.

I started this thread to find out how the guys who are living on their guitar playing got started and got to where they are now.

[mbrown3]

Sounds great, Olectric, though I would offer one more piece of advice. Although your goal is to be self-supporting with just music, you should remain open to other "supplementary" work. It's always beneficial to have a bit more "margin of error" financially, and if you're wise about it, will help prepare you for the tough times that inevitably come with doing music full-time. It's certainly not as "glamorous" (if you even care about that), but it gives you a bit more piece of mind.

I've been doing music a long time, but also do computer stuff and some photography on the side. That led to an offer of a full-time job with a mainline Christian denomination, that has flexible hours. It was a situation that allowed me to take only the gigs I wanted, and gave me a bit of financial freedom to pay off student loans (which suck). It also led to a bunch of other gigs, like the missions conference I did in KS. So unless you're REALLY committed to living simply and working real hard to make ends meet (which is cool if you can make it work), it's not a bad idea to keep open to other work as well. It's best if you have another skill or talent that you can work at your own pace (like website design, as an example), but you can work around pretty much anything.

Much luck to you, man. God bless as you get yourself out there. It's not always easy, but if you do what you love, it's always rewarding.

[Suriel Zayas]

The "budding" part was in reference to my recent decision to, once grad school is over (MS in mathematics, pending May '05)

olectric, your case is so similar to mine. i have a bs in civil engineering (minor in music) and a ms in structural engineering and currently work in music fulltime. go figure! from my earliest recollections i always wanted to be involved in music, but going to college was not an option with my parents. and i didn't get a degree in music, because i always equated a degree in music with teaching. i didn't want to teach, i wanted to be on the performance side. however, music is not such a departure from engineering & math. there are alot of numbers in music. yes there are!!!!

peace.

suriel

[mbrown3]

Yeah, you have a leg up on a lot of folks, olectric, with your math background. I never was very good at math (though I'm really anal about timing and rhythm, go figure).

[olectric]

Suriel, that's so cool. I know so many engineers who are disciplined and excellent musicians. I actually started out as a music ministry major at a small Bible college, but the program was really lacking in actual music. It was geared towards preparing people to work in a church directing choirs and arranging charts for worship teams. After a semester, I decided to change majors (and schools), and ironically, I was asked back to the program a couple of years later as an instructor to teach guitar playing as an implement to lead worship.

Up until last month, I was interested in starting a career with Lockheed Martin as a systems engineer. I was never given peace about it, though. I feel that if I were to take that job right now, I would probably regret it five years down the road when I have been sitting at a desk, programming my life away while the Kingdom waits for me to be who I was born to be. That's where I am in my Story. Your Story is a tremendous encouragement.

MBrown3--I know what you mean about the supplemental income. I know that God will provide for me (consider the sparrows...), whether that be through playing or teaching guitar or teaching math part time or something else He may not have told me yet. <nervous laugh>

[guitarzan]

I've learned some of my greatest lessons watching other guys shoot themselves in the foot. For instance, some guys will use gigs as a stepping stone to better gigs, which is how it should be done- but these guys will flame the old gigs and players once they've moved on to bigger and better things. I think you'll find that the guys who are successful (for more than a season) are the ones who- on a break from touring with Madonna- woud be willing to go back and play a hotel lounge for any number of reasons.

I've been told that, to take a gig, it has to fit into one of three categories: 1) great money; 2) great hang with other musicians; or 3) it's musically challenging. (I gotta say that they guys who've told me that are still doing the same gigs that they were doing 5 years ago.) Their list doesn't account for networking, the love of music, helping others out in a last minute fix (i.e. cancelled guitarist hours before), or just finding ANYPLACE to use the talents with which we've been blessed and using them to honor the One who gave them to us.

I just played a nightmare gig a couple of weeks ago at a big church for a guy they tell me was a big big star in Christian music in the 80's. It was a FREE gig and it goes down as one of the most memorable gigs I've ever had only because it was like getting poked in the eye for 6 hours straight. I got the call 2 hours before I was supposed to be at the gig. I was playing with folks I'd never met in a building I'd never been to. There were no charts. The artist didn't have a grasp of theory (or music) because any common musical terms were replaced with descriptions like "little curly Q" or "the chord looks like this". The description of the tones he wanted sounded like a mix between the the sound of Pearl Harbor being attacked and the lions at the zoo. In the middle of the service, the pastor/speaker comes over and hijacks my rig. WHILE he's grabbing the guitar (an anderson) off my back, he's saying, "are you mad? don't be mad...". He's playing along with the band and squatting down to change settings on my pedal board. And all the while, this church broadcasts it's services via satellite all around the world so- give or take- 6 billion people shared the experience with me. All that was left was for the pastor's wife to go slash my tires or for the church to collectively go and burn my house down. But THAT gig has been great to keep in my hat as "The Worst of All Gigs" because no matter what happens, whether it's totally my fault or if someone else has dropped the ball, all other gigs are enjoyable because they're better than that one.

Playing professionally seems to be less about proficiency and more about perspective. Good luck and God's blessings.

[olectric]

I just played a nightmare gig a couple of weeks ago at a big church for a guy they tell me was a big big star in Christian music in the 80's. It was a FREE gig and it goes down as one of the most memorable gigs I've ever had only because it was like getting poked in the eye for 6 hours straight.

Oh man, I wouldn't wish that on anyone! I'm sure that it happened to you because you're a graceful enough person to take it in perspective. Hey, at least you've got your "One Nightmare Gig of a Lifetime" out of the way now! I haven't had mine yet.

[crash]

...I was never given peace about it, though. I feel that if I were to take that job right now, I would probably regret it five years down the road when I have been sitting at a desk, programming my life away while the Kingdom waits for me to be who I was born to be. That's where I am in my Story. Your Story is a tremendous encouragement.

MBrown3--I know what you mean about the supplemental income. I know that God will provide for me (consider the sparrows...), whether that be through playing or teaching guitar or teaching math part time or something else He may not have told me yet. <nervous laugh>

To throw in two more cents, I can ditto both of those sentiments. I'm 36, and after being in the professional IT world as an engineer, consultant and IT director for a publicly-held company, I realized I'd spent 18 years of my life sitting behind the wrong guy's desk.

I am now in the process of going on staff with the music ministry of a large missionary organization - because at age 35, I finally heard my calling and it wasn't the 'safe' job or the 'lucrative' position - it was a calling to use music to make a difference in the world.

And because I'm with a missionary organization, it means we have to raise our own financial support. I now understand - in new and deeper ways each day - what it means to know that you will be provided for.

It also means, from a comparative standpoint, it will take me a little longer to afford a TA! Oh, well... :-)

So absolutely - follow where you're being led. And even more absolutely, you will be provided for.

scott

[guitarzan]

Oh man, I wouldn't wish that on anyone! I'm sure that it happened to you because you're a graceful enough person to take it in perspective. Hey, at least you've got your "One Nightmare Gig of a Lifetime" out of the way now! I haven't had mine yet.


are you kdding?!? Stuff like that happens everywhere you turn. THAT just happens to be the one to win the title!! :) But that's one of the best parts of working in a creative field- that it STAYS exciting. Those experiences are the equivalent to being in the trenches in combat. They temper you and make you resilient. The more contenders you have in your "Worst Gig Of All Time" list, the more collected you'll be when the little things go bump in the night.

And thank you for the compliment! That gracefulness comes from finding the upside in being paid with Starbucks cards!!!

[olectric]

are you kdding?!? Stuff like that happens everywhere you turn.

I've never had anything THAT nightmarish happen. I guess I'm a) lucky and b) inexperienced. I have however been involved in plenty of gigs where I just wasn't into the music I had to play, and it was a challenge to stay interested. Well, if this is what I'm getting into, I'll brace myself for the occasional nightmare.

[tom]

you may also just be good at listening to your spidey senses. sometimes the spidey sense goes off, but we don't pay attention. it happens with some regularity here on the phone, none of you guys of course, but sometimes i get sucked in and just have to wait it out. there is usually something to be learned even in a difficult call or gig. part of the challenge/fun is the learning. i have actually had a ton of fun at horrible gigs, you just have to make the best of it sometimes.

[ToneLounge]

'Zan - so sorry!

You told me it was bad, but it looks worse in writing - and I was the one who bailed on the gig and referred you! Ouch!

B

[guitarzan]

it's ok, B. It ALL COMES AROUND...

[mbrown3]

MBrown3--I know what you mean about the supplemental income. I know that God will provide for me (consider the sparrows...), whether that be through playing or teaching guitar or teaching math part time or something else He may not have told me yet. <nervous laugh>

...or working at Lockheed Martin. ;) I mean that mostly tongue-in-cheek, of course, since you definitely have to have the sense that it's where God wants you, and if you feel that's not it, then you really shouldn't go for it. But at the same time I think sometimes we look at things like that as preventing us from getting to where God wants us to be when those are where God wants us to be.

Like the story of the guy in his house when a flood comes, and it fills up his whole first floor so he goes up to the roof. The water continues upward and gets to about his knees, and a boat floats by and the folks in it say, "hop in." But the man refuses, saying "God will save me." Then the water gets to his waist, and soon another boat floats by and the folks tell him to get in. Again he refuses, saying, "God will save me." Soon the water is up to his neck, and a helicopter flies up and drops a rope, yelling at him to grab on. Yet again the man refuses, saying, "God will save me." The water then engulfes him and he dies and goes to heaven. When he meets God, he says, "What the heck, I thought for sure you would save me...why didn't you?" God replied, "Are you kidding? I sent two boats and a helicopter!"

All that's to say...don't take any opportunity for granted. It may not be what you think you want, or what you expect, but sometimes those kinds of open doors are God's way of getting you from one place to another. BUT, if you really don't feel it's the right situation, then nothing should push you into it either. I'm just saying don't dismiss it out of hand without really considering it (and, in your case it really sounds like you have). Nothing's worse than being in the wrong job or situation just because it's something. Crash is absolutely right about that.

My further .02 cents... :cool:

[olectric]

MBrown3--

Point taken. I have decided that Lockheed can wait (maybe forever)--as soon as I'm done with my M.S., I'm going to focus on music and see what happens. To me, an engineering job just isn't conducive to the kind of interpersonal activity that furthers the Kingdom. I would be surrounded by other engineers in an office 50-60 hours per week. I'd have enough time to sleep, and that's about it. When I have a family someday, I would really only be providing for them in the financial sense--I would be absent in almost every other way. There's no way I'm going for that. I know that the world needs engineers, but I don't feel that I am being called to that. I feel that I am being called to an occupation that is all about relationships instead of productivity. I don't want to work my life away programming in a cubicle while the stuff that makes life happen passes me by. I'd rather live an adventure where God is in control, and I'm just answering the call.

Trust me, I'm not taking any opportunities for granted. This is something huge, and it consumes a large part of my prayer life and my thoughts throughout the day.

That is a great story about the guy on the roof by the way; I've heard that several times, although I can't tell you where. Thanks for two more cents. :)

[mbrown3]

Yeah, I understand olectric, and kudos for going after what you need to. My brother in law is an engineer and his work is just as you describe. In any case, great stuff. Keep playing, man. We'll see your name all over the place someday!

[Marty S Horne]

As a full time gigging musician here's what worked for me:
Be proficient in as many styles as you can. When one band I was in broke up, I picked up steady work in a country band because I could play it convincingly. Likewise when a gig at a fancy Yacht club came up, I got it because I could turn down and play Misty, Satin Doll, Girl from Ipanema, etc. Also learn to sing lead and harmony. You don't have to be Pavrotti, just sing in tune and with confidence. Lastly as was said, be professional. Show up on time, dress appropriately and leave your personal problems at home.