BFTS & scale length

[sonicparke]

If I'm thinking about it the right way then when you retro fit the BFTS on a guitar the scale length should decrease by approx. 2mm. So instead of a 25.5" scale you might have a 25.23 (or whatever it would be) scale. But if you build a guitar from the begining with BFTS planned for then the scale length should be correct (25.5, 24.75, etc.) So in theory you would be moving all the frets back towards the nut 2mm rather than the nut towards the frets 2mm. So are there going to be subtle differences between the 2 setups or is 2mm so negligible that it doesn't matter? :confused:

[Roy (maybe)]

Hi Sonicparke,

Very well thought out but not exactly correct.

The Buzz system’s nut movement—and all other manufactures that move their nut placement toward the bridge for that matter—are doing so to compensate for the increase in string tension when the strings are fretted at the first fret. On a guitar with normally calculated nut placement these notes always play sharp when the string is at pitch. Relocating the nut—and doing it the right amount is critical—can correct this problem but also corrects the open string to all fretted note relationship, allowing the guitar to play more accurately in tune in every position. A perfectly executed but traditional 25 ½-inch scale length must remain intact for this system to have its desired benefits.

At least that is how I think Roy from Anderson told it to me.

Happy Playing
Roy (maybe)

[tom]

yes, and to expand. the frets to high e saddle relationship is perfectly intact from stanfard even temperament. you have to be very careful about that "2mm" dimension. it is never as much as 2mm. it is a small percentage of the nut to first fret relationship. that percentage changes with string tension. an acoustic is moved less than an electric. you also can not asume that the nut is in the right place to start with. we have done retrofits where the nut has been off in both directions. you must be very sure of what the "real" scale length is, then verify where the nut is before cutting.

[Roy (maybe)]

Yea, and to expand a bit more,

If the frets are not located in exactly the correct positions—due to variance in installation tolerance of many manufactures—it doesn’t matter what you do with nut placement or altered intonation, the guitar still may never play in tune. Every aspect is important.

Roy (maybe)

[Stan Malinowski]

Does the amount of neck relief affect the scale length or fret location to any great degree? I would assume no, but had to ask.

[Roy (maybe)]

Hi Administrator Stan,

To assume, “No,” is to assume correctly—so that would be a yes to your no—or is that a no to your yes? Anyway, you know what I mean when I say, “no,” yes?

Happy Playing
Roy (maybe)

[sonicparke]

ok...well I guess that all makes sense. So based on the fret to saddle relationship then the scale is always going to be that certain percentage off a bit. Providing that all the other aspects are perfect. I knew it wasn't exactly 2mm but used it as a number. I didn't however realize that it was a percentage of the distance to the first fret. That all makes sense though. So the larger the scale the more the nut might have to move. Interesting. Does string gauge have anything to do with it?

[tom]

not gauge, but tension. on a 25.5 scale, electric strings,.009, or .010, have less tension than say .012 acoustic strings. the electric would have more taken off the first fret dimension than the acoustic.

[Stan Malinowski]

But wouldn't string gauge still fit in when it comes to adjusting the intonation to the required BFS offsets?

[sonicparke]

OK...I guess I meant gauge in regards to the tension. So the less tension the more you have to move the nut. I guess because when you press down at the first fret you will increase the tension of the string than if it had more tension to begin with. Clear as mud?

[slowburn]

new anderson's ship with .010s usually right? let's say I buy one that's already been built, (not ordered to my specs), and I want to string it up with .011s... does that mean no matter how hard I try the guitar will never intonate as well as it would if I keep .010s on it, since it was built with .010s in mind and the nut was placed accordingly?

[tom]

1st, yes , lighter strings get the nut closer to the first fret.
2nd, we build the guitar with whatever string guage was requested. the nut placement works for .009's -.011's no problem. .011's intonate a bit different. when you get into .012's, you need to use the acoustic temperament on the tuner.

[morty]

I am a bit confused.. My Drop Top was originally 009, and when I changed to 010 the tremolo came up and was not paralell with the body, so it`s obvious that the tension was more than on 009`s I also adjusted the the tremolo springs, and I asume the tention got a little bit more because of that to..
maby I am changing to 009`s again just to compare

So my question is.. Does my guitar intonate better with 009 than 010??

My tuner is th Peterson Strobostomp.

[bruce]

morty, to answer your question, if your guitar was set up by the factory with .009's then it will want to be re-intonated and set up if you change to .010's. Now, you could still play the guitar and get by, but it wouldn't be in it's optimum form.

[morty]

To Bruce. I have reintonated it, it was my first intonating job tough, but I think i got it quite right the 2. time i tryed it.. I have also tightened the tremolosprings.. do you think I have to adjust the truss rod?

I uses my Fender to compare, and when I press the 15. and the7. fret at the G-string it seems like te action is lower than on my Fender at the 7. fret but The action on the Anderson seems a bit higher twoards the 12. fret. Could the reason be the higher frets on the Anderson, or to I have to adjust (loosen) the trusrod? I think my other guitars have fairly flat neck and low action. I have a bit hard left hand, but a light pick with my right hand.

Maybe I am verry particular about my guitarsetup, but I want to have my Anderson 100% the way I like it.

My local guitarshop always do my setup, but I have desided to do it my self from now on, because it`s not that difficult if you know what you`r doing..

[tom]

if you have not messed with the saddle height screws, then a simple neck adjustment is probably all you need. while holding the string down at the 1st and 15th fret, look at the space betewwn the string and the 8th fret. it should be very small. a business card is probably too much. since you have a light right hand style, you can get away with a straighter neck. the action will come down when you you straighten the neck.

[morty]

Thank you for your answer Tom! It was just as i tought.so I think I have to losen the neck a little bit, to get it a straighter neck. The string height become nore even. I have to say this forum is very good, and it`s verry good, that Tom is on the forum and give answers directly!! I don`t think any other guitarbuilders do that!!

When you own an Anderson Guitar, it`s hard to not be an Andersonlover!!

[tom]

if you are going from .009 to .010, you will likely need to ad tension.

[Roy (maybe)]

Hi Morty,

You know if it is still a bit foggy, you can always call Roy at Anderson with guitar and screwdriver in hand and they can talk you through the procedure the first time.

Happy Playing,
Roy (maybe)