New Fender 57 Twin, best way to blend channels

[tunacaster]

Guys, got one of the Fender 57 Twin amps and am trying to get trying to get both channels to work together. I have been told that you cannot jump the channels together as you do on a Bassman. Also told either a Y cable or switch box would work to accomplish this. What type of Y cable should I get? I tried one that was stereo on one side and that doesn't work. What about a A/B/Y or A/B box? Any recommendations? Also, would it matter what inputs you connect to (1 or 2)for the different channels. Thanks

Tommy

[killerburst]

Try jumping the inputs (despite what you were told- can't hurt the amp). It should work the same as a Bassman. If it doesn't work, get a mono Y cable or splitter box. The 1 and 2 inputs on each channel are hi and lo sensitvity.

[jimmieb]

Originally posted by tunacaster
Guys, got one of the Fender 57 Twin amps and am trying to get trying to get both channels to work together. I have been told that you cannot jump the channels together as you do on a Bassman. Also told either a Y cable or switch box would work to accomplish this. What type of Y cable should I get? I tried one that was stereo on one side and that doesn't work. What about a A/B/Y or A/B box? Any recommendations? Also, would it matter what inputs you connect to (1 or 2)for the different channels. Thanks

Tommy

Hey Tommy,

Great question! I've got a Roger Mayer Crossroads A/B box. There are others, but check out www.harmonycentral.com for the unabridged list.
The main thing is to get a box that is buffered so there is no signal loss. I think it depends what you want to combine. A straight A/B box would give you either 'A' or 'B' separate. Then on my Crossroads there's a toggle switch that gives 'A' or A+B both, but you can't have all combinations simultaneously. An A/B/Y box would give all three combination on the fly. As to your input question the only combination that would matter is the second one the 'A' or 'A+B', you would have to choose which is your primary channel and plug 'A' into that and then the add channel to 'B'. This is, by the way, how most folks would go about doing this, I think.


Jimmie B

PS I'd love to hear a report of your thoughts on the amp. I've played through a real '57 Twin owned by Darrel Mansfield with a '63 Strat it was pretty amazing, very loud! The room I was in wasn't big enough to allow the amp to breathe, But still it was amazing... Oh yeah the Y cable won't work well due to the loss of signal.

[tunacaster]

We tried jumping the channels in the store, won't work, something is different in there between a bassman and a twin, but I am not technical enough to say. What do you guys think about this product

www.startouchpedals.com

[killerburst]

Originally posted by tunacaster
We tried jumping the channels in the store, won't work, something is different in there between a bassman and a twin, but I am not technical enough to say. What do you guys think about this product

www.startouchpedals.com

Looks good. Not sure what "double grounded" means, though. But it looks like they make a nice looking A/B box.

If you don't need to switch channels and just want to ride both channels at once, you can save yourself $40 and get a Y cable or put three 1/4" jacks wired in parallel in a metal box. I looked at the schematic for the 5E8A "low power" twin. You are right it is different than the 5F6A Bassman. The "high power" Twin has the same front end as the Bassman.

RE: signal loss with a Y cable- keep the Y portion short and you'll be fine. The added resistance will be immeasurable. And since you're plugging into the same amp, no worries about ground loops. Keep it simple.

[joe1962]

I've used the $4 molded Radio Shack Y-cords with Marshalls and a Bassman reissue and they work fine. When I got my Germino Masonette (Plexi clone) a couple of years ago I asked Greg Germino what to use to jumper the channels and he said the Radio Shack Y-cord was about as good as anything else.

[jimmieb]

Originally posted by tunacaster
We tried jumping the channels in the store, won't work, something is different in there between a bassman and a twin, but I am not technical enough to say. What do you guys think about this product

www.startouchpedals.com

That's a good product but I'm not sure if it's buffered. IMHO it can effect your tone without a buffer, your cutting the signal impedence in half and if you run a long cable it will add to the degradation of your signal. It will help also if you've got a lot of pedals. Still, the Startouch should work though, other brands that are buffered are around $150 or so which might be more than you want to pay. Of course, that amp might not be able to be jumped. Maybe you could call the Fender custom shop in Corona, they could tell you...

Jimmie B

PS The Boogie Store guys in Hollywood were the ones who told me about the buffering thing and turned me on to the Crossroads pedal. They could lay down the signal loss thing for you in more detail and offer an answer. If you don't want to switch go with Killerbursts suggestion.

[killerburst]

Originally posted by jimmieb
... your cutting the signal impedence in half ...

Actually, you're dividing the input resistance, which increases voltage on the first stage grid. You're also using both triodes of each first stage tube. You're doubling the available gain feeding the EQ stage and all subsequent stages, plus getting the added benefit of channel blending which many people feel is the ONLY way to use these 4 input amps (tweed, plexi, etc.). The "low-power" Twin 5E8A is wired a little differently in the input section (compared to the high power Twin 5F8A, narrow panel Bassman 5F6A, various Marshalls, etc.) preventing the traditional jump from input 1/channel 2 to input 2/channel 1, BUT using the aforementioned $4 Y cable will give you the exact same effect with no perceivable signal degradation. In fact, you will notice a significant increase in gain. One note- because of the way the '57 Twin is wired, you'll need to plug the Y into input 1 on both channels.

Some people like the effect of a long cable. The increased resistance becomes part of the tone. Jimi Hendrix used 30' curly cables because of the natural high frequency roll-off the additional resistance provided. If you check out the clips on Barber Electronics web page, they all were done with a 50' George L's cable between guitar and amp. A buffer lowers your guitar's output impedance so that the resistance has little effect and your highs remain intact through long cable runs. Something else to think about: a buffer should be used first (or early) in the chain for max effectiveness. It "drives" the signal path through your FX and all the cable in your path. Kind of awkward to use it to combine inputs on an amp if it's placed between the guitar and first FX pedal, no? IMO, there are certainly applications for a buffer or buffered A/B box, but jumping channels on an amp designed in the '50s ain't one of them. Let me put it this way: I can't think of a single classic guitar tone that was created with a buffer between guitar and amp, but I can think of countless tones that were created with guitars plugged straight into jumpered (or Y cabled) inputs on 4 input amps.

IMHO, YMMV, My 2 cents, etc.

[jimmieb]

Originally posted by killerburst
Actually, you're dividing the input resistance, which increases voltage on the first stage grid. You're also using both triodes of each first stage tube. You're doubling the available gain feeding the EQ stage and all subsequent stages, plus getting the added benefit of channel blending which many people feel is the ONLY way to use these 4 input amps (tweed, plexi, etc.). The "low-power" Twin 5E8A is wired a little differently in the input section (compared to the high power Twin 5F8A, narrow panel Bassman 5F6A, various Marshalls, etc.) preventing the traditional jump from input 1/channel 2 to input 2/channel 1, BUT using the aforementioned $4 Y cable will give you the exact same effect with no perceivable signal degradation. In fact, you will notice a significant increase in gain. One note- because of the way the '57 Twin is wired, you'll need to plug the Y into input 1 on both channels.

Some people like the effect of a long cable. The increased resistance becomes part of the tone. Jimi Hendrix used 30' curly cables because of the natural high frequency roll-off the additional resistance provided. If you check out the clips on Barber Electronics web page, they all were done with a 50' George L's cable between guitar and amp. A buffer lowers your guitar's output impedance so that the resistance has little effect and your highs remain intact through long cable runs. Something else to think about: a buffer should be used first (or early) in the chain for max effectiveness. It "drives" the signal path through your FX and all the cable in your path. Kind of awkward to use it to combine inputs on an amp if it's placed between the guitar and first FX pedal, no? IMO, there are certainly applications for a buffer or buffered A/B box, but jumping channels on an amp designed in the '50s ain't one of them. Let me put it this way: I can't think of a single classic guitar tone that was created with a buffer between guitar and amp, but I can think of countless tones that were created with guitars plugged straight into jumpered (or Y cabled) inputs on 4 input amps.

IMHO, YMMV, My 2 cents, etc.

Wow! I stand corrected... Very Impressive Knowledge, I learned a thing or two.

Jimmie B

[tunacaster]

Man! Guys thanks for all of the help. I would rather keep it short and sweet and go with the Y cable. Question: Is that a mono Y cable? I bought a stereo Y cable and that didn't work.


Killerburst,

Regarding the Jimi thing. I read about this on The Tonequest Website. They have an article on there with the late Cesar Diaz and here is a part of his interview talking about the same thing you are talking about


"Anyway, I sent messages to both Lenny Kravitz and Eric Johnson that part of the secret to getting great tone was using weaker pickups and coil cables. The coil cables add a lot of capacitance and inductance to your signal chain, therefore, when you’re playing through a Marshall, you’re cutting back on the high frequencies. When we were doing the In Step album with Stevie, I had an endorsement with Monster Cables. They would send me all of this free stuff and I was very excited because I could manage these things for a guy like Stevie, who really didn’t even know how to wash dishes. All he knew how to do was play the guitar, but God bless him for that, because he really did something with what he knew. Anyway, I took these cables we got to Stevie and he said, “I hate these things.” I asked him, “Why, man, they’re the best cables in the world?” He said, “They pass to much electricity.” Those were his exact words, and I’ll never forget it as long as I live. “They pass too much electricity.”

They were too efficient…

"Yeah, so he sent me out to the local Radio Shack and told me to buy every gray coil cord they had – not the black ones, only the gray ones. And I thought, “Hhmm, this freakin’ hick from Dallas is telling me this?” I got them and ran them through my capacitance meter and found out that they added like almost .05 mfd to the signal chain. That made it sound solid – it was like having a tone control, and the brightness and harshness that the Marshalls had was eliminated. There isn’t a single picture of Hendrix… back then they already had high-end cables, but there isn’t a single picture of Hendrix where you see him playing with a straight cable. Why? This is something I brought up to Eric Johnson – whether he heard me or not I don’t know, but it could be the second coming of coil cables. "

Pretty cool, thought you might like to see this

Thanks for all of your advice

Tommy

[killerburst]

Originally posted by tunacaster
Question: Is that a mono Y cable? I bought a stereo Y cable and that didn't work.


Yes, a mono Y cable.

[tunacaster]

Thanks Guys & especially Killerburst,

Radio Shack has it for $3.99.. model # 42-2156 - 6" Shielded Mono Y Cable.